1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 3 00:00:14,931 --> 00:00:17,600 I must be in heaven, man. 4 00:00:20,687 --> 00:00:22,814 'Cause I get to introduce 5 00:00:22,814 --> 00:00:26,067 Little Steven and the Disciples of Soul! 6 00:00:26,067 --> 00:00:32,115 Little Steven and the Disciples of Soul. 7 00:00:53,386 --> 00:00:56,556 ♪ Can you hear me? ♪ 8 00:00:56,556 --> 00:00:58,350 ♪ Wake up ♪ 9 00:00:58,350 --> 00:01:02,312 ♪ Where's the voice Of America? ♪ 10 00:01:03,980 --> 00:01:06,858 ♪ Can you hear me? ♪ 11 00:01:06,858 --> 00:01:08,526 ♪ Wake up ♪ 12 00:01:08,526 --> 00:01:11,821 ♪ Where's the voice Of America? ♪ 13 00:01:11,821 --> 00:01:13,448 Listen! 14 00:01:14,032 --> 00:01:15,575 ♪ I know that we knew ♪ 15 00:01:15,575 --> 00:01:19,746 ♪ Right from wrong Once upon a time ♪ 16 00:01:20,705 --> 00:01:24,668 ♪ Everything we stood for Has been compromised ♪ 17 00:01:24,668 --> 00:01:26,878 ♪ I been quiet ♪ 18 00:01:26,878 --> 00:01:29,005 ♪ Too quiet ♪ 19 00:01:29,547 --> 00:01:34,177 ♪ While across Our borderline ♪ 20 00:01:34,177 --> 00:01:37,681 ♪ My people lie ♪ 21 00:01:39,891 --> 00:01:42,268 ♪ Can you hear me? ♪ 22 00:01:42,268 --> 00:01:43,978 ♪ I said wake up ♪ 23 00:01:44,396 --> 00:01:48,400 ♪ We are the voice Of America ♪ 24 00:01:49,901 --> 00:01:52,904 ♪ Can you hear me? ♪ 25 00:01:52,904 --> 00:01:54,531 ♪ Wake up ♪ 26 00:01:54,531 --> 00:01:58,702 ♪ We're the voice Of America ♪ 27 00:01:59,703 --> 00:02:03,707 ♪ We're the voice Of America ♪ 28 00:02:04,499 --> 00:02:09,004 ♪ We're the voice Of America ♪ 29 00:02:09,629 --> 00:02:15,135 ♪ We're the voice Of America ♪ 30 00:02:15,135 --> 00:02:17,262 All right. 31 00:02:36,114 --> 00:02:39,909 ♪ After the wind Dried my eyes ♪ 32 00:02:40,577 --> 00:02:42,328 It was a time when there were clubs 33 00:02:42,328 --> 00:02:44,080 all over for teenagers. 34 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:45,999 On a Friday or Saturday night, 35 00:02:45,999 --> 00:02:47,334 you had your choice 36 00:02:47,334 --> 00:02:49,210 of a dozen places to go 37 00:02:49,210 --> 00:02:50,754 to hear live music. 38 00:02:50,754 --> 00:02:53,423 We just had a million places to play. 39 00:02:53,423 --> 00:02:55,342 Beach clubs and VFW halls 40 00:02:55,342 --> 00:02:57,594 and-and-and high school dances, 41 00:02:57,594 --> 00:03:00,638 and there were clubs built for teenagers. 42 00:03:00,638 --> 00:03:02,974 ♪ And jump for joy And Xanadu ♪ 43 00:03:02,974 --> 00:03:06,519 ♪ It's Hullabaloo ♪ 44 00:03:06,519 --> 00:03:10,273 The Hullabaloo clubs were a franchise 45 00:03:10,273 --> 00:03:12,150 from the television show. 46 00:03:12,484 --> 00:03:13,943 For one reason or another, 47 00:03:13,943 --> 00:03:17,322 I was going to the one in Middletown one weekend. 48 00:03:17,322 --> 00:03:18,740 I walk in, and... 49 00:03:19,157 --> 00:03:22,619 uh, there was, uh, a band playing, 50 00:03:22,619 --> 00:03:25,372 sounded really good. Stevie was fronting. 51 00:03:25,372 --> 00:03:27,123 My recollection is, I always say 52 00:03:27,123 --> 00:03:29,334 he had on a huge paisley tie 53 00:03:29,334 --> 00:03:31,461 that caught my attention, 54 00:03:31,461 --> 00:03:34,506 - and it was funny. - Bruce had a band, 55 00:03:34,506 --> 00:03:36,633 The Castiles, it was one of those bands. 56 00:03:36,633 --> 00:03:37,967 My band was the Source. 57 00:03:37,967 --> 00:03:40,679 Our two bands were the only bands that had managers. 58 00:03:40,970 --> 00:03:44,599 He had this crazy character named Tex, you know, 59 00:03:44,808 --> 00:03:46,351 and I had Big Mama McEvilly, 60 00:03:46,351 --> 00:03:48,645 who was the drummer's, my drummer's mother. 61 00:03:48,645 --> 00:03:51,272 And I don't know if we exchanged some information. 62 00:03:51,272 --> 00:03:52,691 I didn't have a phone. 63 00:03:52,691 --> 00:03:56,194 There was just some mystical thing in the air 64 00:03:56,194 --> 00:03:58,863 that happens when you meet somebody 65 00:03:59,364 --> 00:04:03,118 who feels about something the same way 66 00:04:03,493 --> 00:04:06,496 with the kind of intensity that you feel about it. 67 00:04:06,871 --> 00:04:08,164 So he just became 68 00:04:08,164 --> 00:04:11,001 my rock and roll brother instantly, you know? 69 00:04:11,001 --> 00:04:12,711 Now tonight, the whole country 70 00:04:12,711 --> 00:04:15,505 is waiting to hear England's Beatles. 71 00:04:16,006 --> 00:04:18,258 February 8th, 1964, 72 00:04:18,258 --> 00:04:19,884 there were no bands in America. 73 00:04:19,884 --> 00:04:22,679 February 9th they play The Ed Sullivan Show, 74 00:04:22,679 --> 00:04:25,557 February 10th, everybody had a band in their garage. 75 00:04:25,557 --> 00:04:29,144 It was revealing this extraordinary new world, 76 00:04:29,144 --> 00:04:31,271 especially for those of us 77 00:04:31,646 --> 00:04:34,649 who were misfits, freaks, and outcasts, you know. 78 00:04:34,649 --> 00:04:39,237 We're not relating to anything that society was offering us. 79 00:04:39,237 --> 00:04:40,405 But they were so good, 80 00:04:40,405 --> 00:04:42,240 you couldn't picture doing it. 81 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:43,867 What nobody knew 82 00:04:43,867 --> 00:04:47,287 is that we'd been rehearsing and practicing 83 00:04:47,287 --> 00:04:50,457 in Britain, in Europe, in Hamburg, 84 00:04:50,457 --> 00:04:52,751 and we'd put in a lot of hours, you know. 85 00:04:52,751 --> 00:04:56,171 It's Malcolm Gladwell's 10,000 hours. 86 00:04:56,171 --> 00:04:59,466 Um, so by the time we reached America, 87 00:04:59,466 --> 00:05:02,093 we were a fully formed beast. 88 00:05:02,093 --> 00:05:03,345 But you couldn't imagine 89 00:05:03,345 --> 00:05:05,597 how you get into that world, you know? 90 00:05:06,139 --> 00:05:07,390 Four months later, 91 00:05:07,390 --> 00:05:09,934 lucky for us, the Rolling Stones come. 92 00:05:09,934 --> 00:05:12,479 You know, they made it look easier than it was. 93 00:05:12,479 --> 00:05:15,065 They wore different things, they had no harmony, 94 00:05:15,065 --> 00:05:17,108 you know, it was the first punk band. 95 00:05:17,108 --> 00:05:19,110 You've gotta keep things simple. 96 00:05:19,444 --> 00:05:20,653 That's the great thing. 97 00:05:20,653 --> 00:05:22,781 If you listen to any great records, 98 00:05:22,781 --> 00:05:24,032 they're so simple. 99 00:05:24,032 --> 00:05:26,201 The fact that Mick Jagger 100 00:05:26,201 --> 00:05:27,619 did not smile. 101 00:05:27,619 --> 00:05:29,579 That to me meant this is not 102 00:05:29,579 --> 00:05:31,790 show business anymore, this is a lifestyle. 103 00:05:31,790 --> 00:05:34,376 I was like, "I want to do that." 104 00:05:37,253 --> 00:05:40,131 We would put together one band after another, 105 00:05:40,131 --> 00:05:41,925 and we couldn't get work, really. 106 00:05:41,925 --> 00:05:43,885 Nobody wanted to hire bands 107 00:05:43,885 --> 00:05:46,179 that were playing any original music. 108 00:05:46,179 --> 00:05:47,472 I go see Bruce, 109 00:05:47,472 --> 00:05:49,265 he said there's this new place called 110 00:05:49,265 --> 00:05:50,684 Upstage at Asbury Park. 111 00:05:50,684 --> 00:05:53,228 There was this crazy idea for a club, 112 00:05:53,228 --> 00:05:54,979 just for kids, no booze, 113 00:05:54,979 --> 00:05:57,440 open from 8:00 at night till 5:00 in the morning. 114 00:05:57,816 --> 00:06:00,318 And if you were good, you would lead the jams. 115 00:06:00,318 --> 00:06:02,404 Stevie Van Zandt, he's my baby, 116 00:06:02,404 --> 00:06:03,655 you know? 117 00:06:03,655 --> 00:06:05,824 The fact that he played bass, keyboard. 118 00:06:05,824 --> 00:06:07,033 Of course, Steven excels 119 00:06:07,033 --> 00:06:08,827 with his guitar and his voice. 120 00:06:08,827 --> 00:06:11,121 He and Bruce made a great combination. 121 00:06:11,121 --> 00:06:12,706 Totally different guitar players, 122 00:06:12,706 --> 00:06:15,500 and constantly on the stage together. 123 00:06:15,500 --> 00:06:17,002 They would sweep the floor, 124 00:06:17,002 --> 00:06:19,504 they loaded soda machines, they did everything. 125 00:06:19,504 --> 00:06:21,840 And Upstage became the place 126 00:06:21,840 --> 00:06:24,509 where we met everybody. Southside Johnny, 127 00:06:24,509 --> 00:06:26,428 Garry Tallent, Vini Lopez, 128 00:06:26,428 --> 00:06:28,346 uh, Danny Federici, everybody. 129 00:06:28,346 --> 00:06:31,433 And one day I came, and there's this guy 130 00:06:31,433 --> 00:06:33,351 with long bushy hair on stage, 131 00:06:33,351 --> 00:06:34,561 he was doing a Yardbirds song, 132 00:06:34,561 --> 00:06:36,312 and he was killing it. 133 00:06:36,312 --> 00:06:38,732 I mean, the passion was so much there. 134 00:06:38,732 --> 00:06:40,525 The guitar playing was great. 135 00:06:40,525 --> 00:06:42,861 He was killing the singing, I just, I went, 136 00:06:42,861 --> 00:06:44,195 "Who's this guy? 137 00:06:44,195 --> 00:06:47,365 I don't need the competition. I'm the singer here." 138 00:06:47,907 --> 00:06:51,077 But I figured I could either make friends or kill him, 139 00:06:51,077 --> 00:06:52,704 so I went back and made friends. 140 00:06:52,704 --> 00:06:55,623 And it was really the start of a great friendship. 141 00:06:55,623 --> 00:06:57,709 You'd be in one guy's band one week, 142 00:06:57,709 --> 00:06:59,210 another guy's band another week, 143 00:06:59,210 --> 00:07:01,671 'cause they're putting bands together, trying things. 144 00:07:01,671 --> 00:07:03,715 We did a duet thing one time, 145 00:07:03,715 --> 00:07:05,884 just guitar and harmonica. 146 00:07:06,384 --> 00:07:07,719 It was very fluid back then. 147 00:07:07,719 --> 00:07:09,554 And we were rooting for each other, 148 00:07:09,554 --> 00:07:11,848 you know, we were mildly competitive. 149 00:07:11,848 --> 00:07:14,392 But I think the love we had for each other 150 00:07:14,392 --> 00:07:15,852 overwhelmed everything. 151 00:07:15,852 --> 00:07:18,480 He was one of those guys I met, like Bruce, 152 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:20,940 who said flat out at 17, 153 00:07:20,940 --> 00:07:22,567 "I'm gonna be a musician." 154 00:07:22,567 --> 00:07:25,403 We didn't think "I should prepare to be... 155 00:07:25,403 --> 00:07:27,781 maybe I should study up and do," no. 156 00:07:27,781 --> 00:07:29,741 It was all or nothing at all, you know? 157 00:07:29,741 --> 00:07:32,744 Bruce was the first really to get out. 158 00:07:32,744 --> 00:07:36,498 I mean, he-he actually got an album made, 159 00:07:36,498 --> 00:07:38,792 and was playing around the country a little bit. 160 00:07:38,792 --> 00:07:40,585 Bruce and I had a bunch 161 00:07:40,585 --> 00:07:41,961 of different bands together, 162 00:07:41,961 --> 00:07:45,006 but he actually got signed as a folk singer. 163 00:07:45,590 --> 00:07:49,010 Unfortunately, Bruce had to say, uh, 164 00:07:49,010 --> 00:07:51,721 you know, "Now that I'm signed as a folk singer, 165 00:07:51,721 --> 00:07:54,641 I'm not a folk singer," you know. 166 00:07:55,100 --> 00:07:56,434 "I got a band." 167 00:07:56,434 --> 00:07:58,603 And so the record company's pissed. 168 00:07:58,603 --> 00:08:00,522 I was one guitar too many. 169 00:08:00,522 --> 00:08:02,440 At that point, you know, 170 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:03,608 I said, "You know what? 171 00:08:03,608 --> 00:08:05,443 I think we missed the boat anyway." 172 00:08:05,443 --> 00:08:07,320 So I quit entirely, 173 00:08:07,779 --> 00:08:10,657 and, um, I started working construction. 174 00:08:10,657 --> 00:08:12,701 Steven lived with my wife and I. 175 00:08:12,701 --> 00:08:15,620 He was working a jackhammer on the parkway. 176 00:08:15,954 --> 00:08:18,289 He would come home literally covered in tar, 177 00:08:18,289 --> 00:08:19,833 his hands would be like this. 178 00:08:19,833 --> 00:08:22,961 I'm saying, "You're a guitar player, you can't do this," 179 00:08:22,961 --> 00:08:25,588 and finally he got a gig with The Dovells, 180 00:08:25,588 --> 00:08:27,632 uh, and did the oldies circuit. 181 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:33,847 Uh, the Dovells made a couple fantastic records, 182 00:08:33,847 --> 00:08:36,016 "Bristol Stomp" and "You Can't Sit Down," 183 00:08:36,016 --> 00:08:39,728 and along the oldies circuit, you're also gonna play Vegas. 184 00:08:40,478 --> 00:08:41,896 Now, I'm a big... 185 00:08:42,647 --> 00:08:44,774 gambler as a kid at that point. 186 00:08:45,150 --> 00:08:48,319 I'm also a bit of a Mob aficionado, you know? 187 00:08:48,319 --> 00:08:51,072 So I'm all in, okay, um, you know, 188 00:08:51,072 --> 00:08:53,533 and, um, and that begins 189 00:08:53,533 --> 00:08:55,952 a very big chapter in my education. 190 00:08:58,663 --> 00:09:02,000 Back in the '50s, we were really segregated. 191 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:05,712 The white DJs were supposed to play their white artists 192 00:09:05,712 --> 00:09:07,255 for their white audiences, 193 00:09:07,255 --> 00:09:10,884 the Black DJs were supposed to do the same thing. 194 00:09:11,301 --> 00:09:14,929 There was Little Richard, Bo Diddley, and Chuck Berry. 195 00:09:15,388 --> 00:09:17,599 When courageous DJs like Alan Freed 196 00:09:17,599 --> 00:09:19,517 started playing those Black records 197 00:09:19,517 --> 00:09:21,019 for their white audiences, 198 00:09:21,019 --> 00:09:23,772 that's when rock and roll went to another dimension. 199 00:09:23,772 --> 00:09:25,023 Popular music became 200 00:09:25,023 --> 00:09:26,858 an instrument for social change, 201 00:09:26,858 --> 00:09:28,860 and launched a cultural phenomenon 202 00:09:28,860 --> 00:09:31,029 known as the British Invasion. 203 00:09:31,529 --> 00:09:33,448 Ironically, the British Invasion 204 00:09:33,448 --> 00:09:35,700 had the unintended consequence 205 00:09:35,700 --> 00:09:38,912 of putting all those pioneers out of work. 206 00:09:38,912 --> 00:09:41,373 If you had two hits when the Beatles came, 207 00:09:41,373 --> 00:09:43,333 you were gonna play those two hits 208 00:09:43,333 --> 00:09:44,709 the rest of your life. 209 00:09:44,709 --> 00:09:46,294 I get on this oldies tour, 210 00:09:46,294 --> 00:09:48,922 and all of these guys have been put out to pasture 211 00:09:48,922 --> 00:09:51,091 in their thirties and early forties. 212 00:09:51,091 --> 00:09:53,718 I mean, they are in the prime of their lives. 213 00:09:53,718 --> 00:09:55,595 So they're all pissed off. 214 00:09:55,595 --> 00:09:56,721 All of 'em. 215 00:09:56,721 --> 00:09:59,140 They hate being called oldies. 216 00:09:59,140 --> 00:10:00,350 They're not old. 217 00:10:00,350 --> 00:10:02,060 I'm the only one having a great time. 218 00:10:02,060 --> 00:10:04,938 You know, I'm meeting all these amazing people. 219 00:10:05,438 --> 00:10:08,608 Stevie would hang with us on the tours we were doing. 220 00:10:08,608 --> 00:10:10,068 He always had a little hat, 221 00:10:10,068 --> 00:10:12,987 a little cap or beanie or something on. 222 00:10:12,987 --> 00:10:17,158 And he always wore, like, a purple jacket, brown pants. 223 00:10:17,158 --> 00:10:20,161 You never knew where the style was going to go. 224 00:10:20,578 --> 00:10:22,122 The first time I met Steven, 225 00:10:22,122 --> 00:10:24,499 I was doing a show for Dick Clark 226 00:10:24,499 --> 00:10:26,835 at the Flamingo Hotel. 227 00:10:26,835 --> 00:10:28,795 So I guess he's up in the balcony, 228 00:10:28,795 --> 00:10:31,381 I'm doing a sound check, and I start doing... 229 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:34,009 Robert Johnson songs. 230 00:10:34,634 --> 00:10:38,054 He was a great blues writer and singer. 231 00:10:38,054 --> 00:10:40,473 A lot of people don't know who he is. 232 00:10:40,974 --> 00:10:43,852 And I'm like, "Am I hallucinating or what?" 233 00:10:43,852 --> 00:10:46,771 It turns out he's into, you know, Robert Johnson, 234 00:10:46,771 --> 00:10:49,858 he's into Hank Williams, he's into things, you know, 235 00:10:50,608 --> 00:10:52,444 that were just fascinating to me. 236 00:10:52,444 --> 00:10:55,780 After we met at the Flamingo Hotel, he joined my band. 237 00:10:55,780 --> 00:10:58,324 He says, "We got a couple gigs left," 238 00:10:58,324 --> 00:11:00,452 this oldies circuit thing 239 00:11:00,452 --> 00:11:02,162 was gonna end in Miami, 240 00:11:02,162 --> 00:11:04,456 and I come back to Asbury Park January 2nd, 241 00:11:04,456 --> 00:11:07,834 and I'm still wearing a flowered short-sleeved shirt, 242 00:11:07,834 --> 00:11:10,670 and the Frank Sinatra, Sam Snead hat, 243 00:11:10,670 --> 00:11:14,424 and I'm like, "Fuck winter, okay? I'm done. 244 00:11:14,424 --> 00:11:16,426 I'm tropical from now on." 245 00:11:16,426 --> 00:11:19,179 I'm carrying it with me, okay? 246 00:11:19,179 --> 00:11:21,973 And that's how Bruce starts calling me "Miami Steve." 247 00:11:21,973 --> 00:11:23,933 ♪ You're sweeter Than the honey ♪ 248 00:11:23,933 --> 00:11:25,977 ♪ That the bees make ♪ 249 00:11:25,977 --> 00:11:27,187 ♪ Soul sister... ♪ 250 00:11:27,645 --> 00:11:30,190 I got back, me, Johnny, Bruce, 251 00:11:30,190 --> 00:11:33,568 and I think Gary, went to see Sam and Dave, 252 00:11:33,568 --> 00:11:35,153 and they inspired us to start 253 00:11:35,153 --> 00:11:37,739 Southside Johnny & the Asbury Jukes, 254 00:11:37,739 --> 00:11:39,991 combining rock and soul. 255 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:46,498 I was not only leading the band, 256 00:11:46,498 --> 00:11:47,874 you know, but also managing it 257 00:11:47,874 --> 00:11:49,626 and doing all the business. 258 00:11:49,626 --> 00:11:53,254 We just kind of organically built a band to do 259 00:11:53,630 --> 00:11:55,173 lots of different types of music. 260 00:11:55,173 --> 00:11:56,549 I always wanted horns. 261 00:11:56,549 --> 00:11:58,426 'Cause Count Basie and Duke Ellington, 262 00:11:58,426 --> 00:12:00,512 that's what I grew up listening to, but more. 263 00:12:00,512 --> 00:12:04,307 The horns are on those old Atlantic records, Stax-Volt. 264 00:12:04,307 --> 00:12:05,767 Steven really wanted them too. 265 00:12:05,767 --> 00:12:07,310 That's where we had a mutuality. 266 00:12:07,310 --> 00:12:10,355 We both wanted to hear this horn section go "Ba-da!" 267 00:12:25,620 --> 00:12:27,038 The scene revitalized 268 00:12:27,038 --> 00:12:29,374 when, uh, we put the Jukes together. 269 00:12:29,374 --> 00:12:30,667 We just went into a bar 270 00:12:30,667 --> 00:12:32,919 that was about to go out of business. 271 00:12:32,919 --> 00:12:35,005 There had been a hurricane or something, 272 00:12:35,005 --> 00:12:36,506 the roof was falling in. 273 00:12:36,506 --> 00:12:38,008 It was called The Stone Pony. 274 00:12:38,008 --> 00:12:40,135 We said, "Look, we'll play for the door, 275 00:12:40,135 --> 00:12:42,804 you have nothing to lose, we play what we want." 276 00:12:56,151 --> 00:12:58,278 They started lining up in the rain 277 00:12:58,278 --> 00:13:00,280 outside The Stone Pony in Asbury Park 278 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:03,616 six hours before the 10:00 p.m. kickoff 279 00:13:03,616 --> 00:13:05,201 of the biggest night in the lives 280 00:13:05,201 --> 00:13:08,079 of Southside Johnny & the Asbury Jukes. 281 00:13:10,123 --> 00:13:12,542 You hear that? Say that louder. 282 00:13:12,542 --> 00:13:13,585 That's the greatest. 283 00:13:13,585 --> 00:13:15,462 I've come to see them 120 times. 284 00:13:15,462 --> 00:13:17,088 120 times! 285 00:13:17,088 --> 00:13:19,174 Who goes to see anyone 120 times? 286 00:13:19,174 --> 00:13:21,426 Kids would huddle on the boardwalk 287 00:13:21,426 --> 00:13:22,761 with transistor radios, 288 00:13:22,761 --> 00:13:24,971 listening along with their friends at home, 289 00:13:24,971 --> 00:13:27,015 and in bars along the Jersey Shore, 290 00:13:27,432 --> 00:13:29,893 to the first live concert broadcast 291 00:13:29,893 --> 00:13:32,062 in the history of Asbury Park. 292 00:13:34,397 --> 00:13:38,068 Tonight may be Memorial Day in the rest of America, 293 00:13:38,068 --> 00:13:40,695 but it's New Year's Eve in Asbury Park. 294 00:13:41,071 --> 00:13:42,864 - All we wanna know... - Yeah? 295 00:13:42,864 --> 00:13:45,241 ...is what are you people doing in my town? 296 00:13:49,788 --> 00:13:52,791 I... I consider myself very fortunate 297 00:13:52,791 --> 00:13:56,169 that I got to see a bit of that part 298 00:13:56,169 --> 00:13:57,879 of Asbury Park. 299 00:13:57,879 --> 00:14:00,298 The boardwalk, the club scene, 300 00:14:00,298 --> 00:14:04,678 Steven trying to create an original sound 301 00:14:04,678 --> 00:14:08,306 out of classic dirt, grit, 302 00:14:08,306 --> 00:14:10,558 mud, heart, soul. 303 00:14:10,558 --> 00:14:12,018 Seeing them in this bar, 304 00:14:12,018 --> 00:14:15,772 you know, they were just so powerful, you know? 305 00:14:15,772 --> 00:14:17,107 But you know, I always joke 306 00:14:17,107 --> 00:14:19,359 that we were probably Southside fans 307 00:14:19,359 --> 00:14:22,278 before we were E Street Band and Bruce fans. 308 00:14:23,488 --> 00:14:25,156 I don't know about you... 309 00:14:27,117 --> 00:14:30,078 ♪ We're having a party ♪ 310 00:14:30,954 --> 00:14:33,331 ♪ Everybody's swinging ♪ 311 00:14:34,290 --> 00:14:35,917 ♪ Dancing to the music... ♪ 312 00:14:35,917 --> 00:14:38,003 So Bruce had done the showcase clubs. 313 00:14:38,003 --> 00:14:41,172 You know, each stage, the rules change. 314 00:14:41,172 --> 00:14:43,049 Once you're in that stage, 315 00:14:43,049 --> 00:14:44,884 and the records weren't selling, 316 00:14:44,884 --> 00:14:46,970 and you know, he wasn't gonna graduate 317 00:14:46,970 --> 00:14:48,930 to, uh, anywhere past that, 318 00:14:48,930 --> 00:14:51,725 so you know, he's coming down, hanging out with us. 319 00:14:51,725 --> 00:14:55,061 ♪ Dancing with my baby ♪ 320 00:14:55,061 --> 00:14:57,897 ♪ We're having a party ♪ 321 00:14:59,107 --> 00:15:02,152 ♪ Everybody's swinging ♪ 322 00:15:02,152 --> 00:15:04,904 ♪ Dancing to the music ♪ 323 00:15:05,697 --> 00:15:07,741 ♪ On the radio ♪ 324 00:15:07,741 --> 00:15:09,200 ♪ Oh yeah ♪ 325 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:11,244 ♪ So listen, Mr. DJ... ♪ 326 00:15:11,244 --> 00:15:13,121 He created extra interest. 327 00:15:13,121 --> 00:15:14,372 People started coming 328 00:15:14,372 --> 00:15:16,374 from North Jersey and Philadelphia, 329 00:15:16,374 --> 00:15:19,002 and we started to really build up an audience, 330 00:15:19,002 --> 00:15:21,379 and we go to a second night, and a third. 331 00:15:21,379 --> 00:15:22,839 One more time! 332 00:15:22,839 --> 00:15:25,050 ♪ We're having a party... ♪ 333 00:15:25,050 --> 00:15:27,260 That is what made 334 00:15:27,260 --> 00:15:29,679 that scene become even more special. 335 00:15:29,679 --> 00:15:32,432 ♪ Dancing to the music ♪ 336 00:15:32,432 --> 00:15:35,060 ♪ On the radio ♪ 337 00:15:36,061 --> 00:15:39,230 ♪ So listen, Mr. DJ ♪ 338 00:15:39,230 --> 00:15:42,025 ♪ Keep those Records playing ♪ 339 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:45,820 ♪ 'Cause I'm having Such a good time ♪ 340 00:15:45,820 --> 00:15:49,491 ♪ Dancing ♪ 341 00:15:50,909 --> 00:15:52,535 ♪ With my ♪ 342 00:15:52,535 --> 00:15:57,582 ♪ Baby ♪ 343 00:16:07,050 --> 00:16:09,427 I think I really met Steve for the first time 344 00:16:09,427 --> 00:16:12,138 when he came in and saved our asses 345 00:16:12,138 --> 00:16:14,224 on "Tenth Avenue Freeze-Out." 346 00:16:14,516 --> 00:16:17,143 We just knew we hadn't fully realized 347 00:16:17,143 --> 00:16:19,145 the potential of the song. 348 00:16:19,145 --> 00:16:21,106 So Bruce calls Steve, 349 00:16:21,106 --> 00:16:23,024 who comes barreling in. 350 00:16:23,024 --> 00:16:25,610 And I have no knowledge, 351 00:16:25,610 --> 00:16:27,987 or particular diplomacy, 352 00:16:27,987 --> 00:16:30,156 or, you know, sophistication 353 00:16:30,156 --> 00:16:32,575 about the music business at that point, 354 00:16:32,575 --> 00:16:35,036 and these guys are fucking up my friend's record. 355 00:16:35,036 --> 00:16:36,996 And Bruce, you know, 356 00:16:36,996 --> 00:16:38,873 says, "Hey, what do you think?" 357 00:16:38,873 --> 00:16:40,333 You know. 358 00:16:40,917 --> 00:16:42,335 Big mistake. 359 00:16:42,669 --> 00:16:44,379 And I was like... 360 00:16:44,879 --> 00:16:46,214 "This sucks." 361 00:16:46,214 --> 00:16:48,800 He kind of laughs it away, and says, "All right, 362 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:51,136 then go in there and fix it then." 363 00:16:51,136 --> 00:16:54,514 Then he says, "Everybody, 364 00:16:54,514 --> 00:16:57,475 take that paper you're looking at, throw it away." 365 00:17:01,771 --> 00:17:03,565 "You, this is what you're playing. 366 00:17:03,565 --> 00:17:04,816 You, play this. 367 00:17:04,816 --> 00:17:06,985 Now I want it to sound real guttural, 368 00:17:06,985 --> 00:17:08,987 I want it to sound funky. 369 00:17:08,987 --> 00:17:11,114 Okay? I don't want it to sound smooth. 370 00:17:11,114 --> 00:17:14,117 I want it to sound like soul." 371 00:17:14,117 --> 00:17:15,910 ♪ I was standing In the jungle ♪ 372 00:17:15,910 --> 00:17:19,664 ♪ Trying to take in all The heat that was given... ♪ 373 00:17:22,125 --> 00:17:23,960 All of a sudden, it was electric. 374 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:25,211 You know, it was great. 375 00:17:25,211 --> 00:17:27,088 It only took 20 minutes. 376 00:17:27,088 --> 00:17:29,674 This guy is somebody to deal with. 377 00:17:29,674 --> 00:17:31,593 It was just a grand slam. 378 00:17:31,593 --> 00:17:33,053 I had met another character, 379 00:17:33,053 --> 00:17:35,347 which I should mention... 380 00:17:35,347 --> 00:17:37,807 ...uh, named Jimmy Iovine, 381 00:17:37,807 --> 00:17:40,185 who was the engineer on Born to Run. 382 00:17:40,685 --> 00:17:44,356 Uh, Jimmy says, um, "I know you got this band, the Jukes, 383 00:17:44,356 --> 00:17:46,399 I got the key to the studio. 384 00:17:47,525 --> 00:17:50,362 We'll sneak them in after hours and do a demo." 385 00:17:50,362 --> 00:17:52,197 I don't remember the exact hustle, 386 00:17:52,197 --> 00:17:54,240 but I'm sure there was a hustle involved. 387 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:57,077 I got busy inside. You got me doing this shit. 388 00:17:57,077 --> 00:17:58,828 Get Steve Van Zandt out here. 389 00:17:58,828 --> 00:18:00,497 He'll talk to you all you want. 390 00:18:00,497 --> 00:18:01,748 He's better looking. 391 00:18:02,082 --> 00:18:03,375 Later. 392 00:18:03,375 --> 00:18:05,418 We were doing everything we could 393 00:18:05,418 --> 00:18:08,672 to help Steve and Southside get the record done. 394 00:18:08,672 --> 00:18:12,050 Bruce suggests I see this guy Steve Popovich, 395 00:18:12,050 --> 00:18:14,386 I give Steve the demo, he loves it, 396 00:18:14,386 --> 00:18:17,389 and starts the process of signing the band. 397 00:18:17,389 --> 00:18:20,892 And Steve Popovich, in his insanity, 398 00:18:20,892 --> 00:18:24,312 sends the demo to Kid Leo, 399 00:18:24,312 --> 00:18:26,898 the most popular DJ 400 00:18:26,898 --> 00:18:28,983 at the most popular station, 401 00:18:28,983 --> 00:18:30,735 uh, in Cleveland. 402 00:18:30,735 --> 00:18:32,570 So Popovich is like... 403 00:18:33,113 --> 00:18:34,906 "We better start making this record. 404 00:18:34,906 --> 00:18:36,116 It's already getting airplay." 405 00:18:36,116 --> 00:18:38,410 ♪ Baby ♪ 406 00:18:38,410 --> 00:18:41,204 ♪ This time It's for real... ♪ 407 00:18:42,414 --> 00:18:44,624 You have the bootleg Southside Johnny? 408 00:18:45,667 --> 00:18:47,961 We started paying for the record, 409 00:18:47,961 --> 00:18:49,421 we happened to have a good year 410 00:18:49,421 --> 00:18:51,214 at the track that summer. 411 00:18:51,214 --> 00:18:54,259 And, uh, which, uh... 412 00:18:54,718 --> 00:18:56,761 makes me curious as to 413 00:18:56,761 --> 00:18:58,179 why we've never received 414 00:18:58,179 --> 00:19:00,682 one single penny in royalties. 415 00:19:00,682 --> 00:19:04,769 He gave me my first royalty point on an album, 416 00:19:04,769 --> 00:19:07,564 which was Southside Johnny & the Asbury Jukes. 417 00:19:07,564 --> 00:19:10,358 I'm not sure if I ever got the royalty, 418 00:19:10,358 --> 00:19:11,818 but he gave it to me. 419 00:19:11,818 --> 00:19:14,320 I ought to call him about that. 420 00:19:15,572 --> 00:19:17,157 ♪ Baby ♪ 421 00:19:17,157 --> 00:19:20,243 ♪ This time It's for real... ♪ 422 00:19:20,910 --> 00:19:22,787 We still owe money probably too. 423 00:19:23,288 --> 00:19:24,789 And that's kind of how it went, you know? 424 00:19:24,789 --> 00:19:28,960 Uh, we'd had a handshake agreement with Steve Popovich. 425 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:32,672 I can safely say nobody in the record industry 426 00:19:32,672 --> 00:19:35,759 would have, uh, the same personality, 427 00:19:36,176 --> 00:19:37,886 uh, and been so encouraging, 428 00:19:37,886 --> 00:19:40,305 because we had a lot of crazy ideas for the Jukes. 429 00:19:40,305 --> 00:19:42,265 I wanted to bring Ronnie Spector 430 00:19:42,265 --> 00:19:44,309 and Lee Dorsey in on the first record. 431 00:19:44,309 --> 00:19:47,479 We wanted to bring in the Drifters and Coasters, 432 00:19:47,479 --> 00:19:49,898 and the Five Satins on the second record, 433 00:19:49,898 --> 00:19:51,483 uh, reuniting them. 434 00:19:51,483 --> 00:19:53,651 Uh, these were not commercial ideas. 435 00:19:53,651 --> 00:19:56,112 I remember doing Southside Johnny, 436 00:19:56,112 --> 00:19:57,697 he brought in Lee Dorsey. 437 00:19:57,697 --> 00:20:00,200 I was like, "What are you talking about?" 438 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:02,369 He said, "Shut up, you don't understand." 439 00:20:02,369 --> 00:20:05,372 I said, "You're right, I don't understand." 440 00:20:05,372 --> 00:20:07,749 I don't understand how it all went together. 441 00:20:07,749 --> 00:20:11,127 I learned a lot from Steve and Bruce both on soul music. 442 00:20:11,127 --> 00:20:12,921 I don't wanna go home. 443 00:20:19,302 --> 00:20:20,637 He knew what he wanted 444 00:20:20,637 --> 00:20:23,348 that band to sound like. His arrangement power, 445 00:20:23,348 --> 00:20:26,935 his commitment to authentic music. 446 00:20:28,812 --> 00:20:31,356 ♪ I know that It's getting late ♪ 447 00:20:31,356 --> 00:20:34,526 ♪ But I don't Want to go home ♪ 448 00:20:35,902 --> 00:20:39,239 ♪ I am in no hurry Baby, time can wait ♪ 449 00:20:39,239 --> 00:20:42,617 ♪ I don't want To go home... ♪ 450 00:20:43,451 --> 00:20:46,705 You know, I had been writing for years, really, 451 00:20:46,705 --> 00:20:48,623 and I never liked anything I wrote. 452 00:20:48,623 --> 00:20:50,458 I just couldn't relate to it. 453 00:20:50,458 --> 00:20:52,293 I decide, "You know what? I gotta go to school. 454 00:20:52,293 --> 00:20:55,255 I'm gonna go to school my own way." 455 00:20:55,255 --> 00:20:59,551 Well, I decide it begins with Leiber and Stoller. 456 00:20:59,551 --> 00:21:01,219 Jerry Leiber and Mike Stoller 457 00:21:01,219 --> 00:21:03,388 were the first songwriter-producers 458 00:21:03,388 --> 00:21:06,224 that set the template for everybody who followed. 459 00:21:06,224 --> 00:21:08,018 I decide, "Okay, I'm gonna write 460 00:21:08,018 --> 00:21:09,728 a Leiber and Stoller song 461 00:21:09,728 --> 00:21:11,855 for Ben E. King and the Drifters. 462 00:21:11,855 --> 00:21:13,565 That's gonna be my mission." 463 00:21:13,565 --> 00:21:15,942 And I write "I Don't Want to Go Home," 464 00:21:15,942 --> 00:21:18,987 which was the first song I ever liked that I wrote. 465 00:21:18,987 --> 00:21:21,865 I didn't have the courage to give it to Ben E. King. 466 00:21:21,865 --> 00:21:25,035 ♪ Look at all The people staying ♪ 467 00:21:25,035 --> 00:21:27,370 ♪ I don't want to go home ♪ 468 00:21:27,370 --> 00:21:28,997 That's because... 469 00:21:28,997 --> 00:21:32,208 ♪ In their minds They've all been there ♪ 470 00:21:32,208 --> 00:21:36,212 ♪ And I don't wanna go home ♪ 471 00:21:36,212 --> 00:21:38,173 ♪ I know the words ♪ 472 00:21:38,173 --> 00:21:40,300 ♪ I know They've got to be real ♪ 473 00:21:40,300 --> 00:21:42,844 ♪ Because I don't wanna go home ♪ 474 00:21:43,511 --> 00:21:48,099 ♪ Baby, it's talking about The way I feel ♪ 475 00:21:48,099 --> 00:21:50,185 ♪ And I don't wanna go home ♪ 476 00:21:50,185 --> 00:21:54,481 ♪ Baby, I know We had to try ♪ 477 00:21:54,481 --> 00:21:57,901 ♪ To reach up And touch the sky... ♪ 478 00:21:57,901 --> 00:21:59,277 It was perfect. 479 00:21:59,277 --> 00:22:01,279 The arrangement, and the chart, 480 00:22:01,279 --> 00:22:04,824 the whole thing sounded pretty much in the bag 481 00:22:04,824 --> 00:22:07,535 that, of the stuff that we were doing. 482 00:22:08,244 --> 00:22:11,122 The song itself I thought was wonderful, 483 00:22:11,122 --> 00:22:13,583 because it's so insistent. 484 00:22:13,583 --> 00:22:16,127 When he's like, "I don't wanna go home," 485 00:22:16,127 --> 00:22:18,838 it lends itself to being repeated, 486 00:22:18,838 --> 00:22:21,466 and it's very touching. 487 00:22:21,883 --> 00:22:24,386 I think Ben E. King would have loved it. 488 00:22:25,136 --> 00:22:27,555 ♪ Sweeter than honey ♪ 489 00:22:27,972 --> 00:22:29,140 ♪ Believe it... ♪ 490 00:22:29,140 --> 00:22:31,309 Back then, everybody had a turntable, 491 00:22:31,309 --> 00:22:33,978 they brought their vinyl, everybody's listening. 492 00:22:33,978 --> 00:22:36,272 I walked into a friend's room, 493 00:22:36,272 --> 00:22:39,901 and the first Southside Johnny album was playing 494 00:22:39,901 --> 00:22:41,403 "I Don't Want to Go Home," 495 00:22:41,403 --> 00:22:42,862 I'm like, "What's this?" 496 00:22:42,862 --> 00:22:45,532 "This is great. I've never heard anything like this." 497 00:22:45,532 --> 00:22:48,284 And I looked, and it was Steven Van Zandt. 498 00:22:48,284 --> 00:22:50,620 ♪ Or a picture book ♪ 499 00:22:50,620 --> 00:22:54,290 ♪ I'm talking about Love, love, love ♪ 500 00:22:54,290 --> 00:22:57,919 ♪ Ain't nothing But love, love, love... ♪ 501 00:22:57,919 --> 00:22:59,921 When you're a kid and have a record in your hand, 502 00:22:59,921 --> 00:23:02,507 you're always reading who did what, who wrote what, 503 00:23:02,507 --> 00:23:04,342 who produced what, this and that, 504 00:23:04,342 --> 00:23:06,302 so Steve was that. 505 00:23:06,302 --> 00:23:10,306 ♪ And that kind of love Don't come easy ♪ 506 00:23:10,306 --> 00:23:14,185 ♪ Baby, ain't much of it In the world around you... ♪ 507 00:23:14,185 --> 00:23:17,230 Steve and Southside were a very powerful team together, 508 00:23:17,230 --> 00:23:20,567 and they made really good records. 509 00:23:20,567 --> 00:23:21,901 I used to say, "Steven, 510 00:23:21,901 --> 00:23:23,862 maybe you should sing your stuff yourself." 511 00:23:23,862 --> 00:23:26,823 He wasn't ready to be the front man at the time, 512 00:23:26,823 --> 00:23:29,826 which was the right decision for him at that moment, 513 00:23:29,826 --> 00:23:32,245 because the records he made with Southside's, 514 00:23:32,245 --> 00:23:34,622 uh, fabulous voice, and, 515 00:23:34,622 --> 00:23:37,584 and did great justice to Stevie's material. 516 00:23:37,584 --> 00:23:40,545 What's gonna happen with Steven? He gonna come out? 517 00:23:43,548 --> 00:23:46,009 Steven had already thought he was gonna go with Bruce, 518 00:23:46,009 --> 00:23:47,719 even at the beginning of the first record. 519 00:23:47,719 --> 00:23:49,637 We convinced the record company 520 00:23:49,637 --> 00:23:51,222 it would be okay without me 521 00:23:51,222 --> 00:23:53,558 and I'd still be there producing. 522 00:23:53,558 --> 00:23:55,685 And I was basically gonna join up 523 00:23:55,685 --> 00:23:57,187 with Bruce for a minute. 524 00:23:57,812 --> 00:24:00,398 I went for seven gigs, and I stayed seven years. 525 00:24:00,398 --> 00:24:02,901 ♪ Rosalita Jump a little higher ♪ 526 00:24:02,901 --> 00:24:05,779 ♪ Señorita Come sit by my fire... ♪ 527 00:24:06,696 --> 00:24:08,448 The friendship was so intense, 528 00:24:08,448 --> 00:24:10,617 and I needed another sounding board, 529 00:24:10,617 --> 00:24:13,244 and somebody with Stevie's creativity, 530 00:24:13,244 --> 00:24:14,996 and things were going good. 531 00:24:14,996 --> 00:24:16,373 It was just a no-brainer. 532 00:24:16,373 --> 00:24:18,208 You know, we were so close 533 00:24:18,208 --> 00:24:20,251 that I just wanted him near me, 534 00:24:20,251 --> 00:24:22,003 I wanted him at my side. 535 00:24:22,462 --> 00:24:23,838 I heard that when he was 536 00:24:23,838 --> 00:24:25,757 in the E Street Band on those great tours, 537 00:24:25,757 --> 00:24:27,884 that he was managing Southside Johnny, 538 00:24:27,884 --> 00:24:30,261 making payphone calls before cell phones, 539 00:24:30,261 --> 00:24:33,431 and dealing with the Southside Johnny Asbury Jukes stuff. 540 00:24:33,431 --> 00:24:35,183 I know that. 541 00:24:35,183 --> 00:24:36,893 Don't you think I know that? 542 00:24:36,893 --> 00:24:38,019 I know that. 543 00:24:39,896 --> 00:24:41,022 On the piano, 544 00:24:41,523 --> 00:24:43,066 Professor Roy Bittan! 545 00:24:48,905 --> 00:24:51,366 On the bass guitar, Garry W. Tallent. 546 00:24:51,366 --> 00:24:53,535 The names, the nicknames, you know, 547 00:24:53,535 --> 00:24:55,745 the Big Mick, Miami Steve, 548 00:24:55,745 --> 00:24:57,622 the Mighty Maxim, it's like... 549 00:24:57,622 --> 00:24:59,791 On the guitar, Miami Steve. 550 00:24:59,791 --> 00:25:01,960 It was traditional rock and roll 551 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,379 done in a very powerful and new way. 552 00:25:04,379 --> 00:25:06,798 On the drums, the Mighty Max. 553 00:25:08,633 --> 00:25:12,262 It was new, but it was old. It was both. 554 00:25:12,262 --> 00:25:14,597 On the organ, Dan Federici. 555 00:25:18,476 --> 00:25:21,980 On the saxophone, Clarence Clemons. 556 00:25:23,398 --> 00:25:24,733 The E Street Band, 557 00:25:24,733 --> 00:25:27,736 you know, you got guys from Jersey. 558 00:25:28,361 --> 00:25:30,030 Loads of things make a good band. 559 00:25:30,030 --> 00:25:32,615 I think one of the important things 560 00:25:32,615 --> 00:25:35,410 is if you're all from the kind of same area, 561 00:25:35,827 --> 00:25:38,246 if you all relate to the same sort of stuff. 562 00:25:38,246 --> 00:25:42,250 Everyone working toward the exact same goal, 563 00:25:42,250 --> 00:25:43,710 in the same direction, 564 00:25:43,710 --> 00:25:45,337 from the same neighborhood, 565 00:25:45,337 --> 00:25:47,339 at the same time in history, 566 00:25:47,339 --> 00:25:49,591 with the same record collections, 567 00:25:50,008 --> 00:25:52,010 that's what makes a band great. 568 00:25:52,010 --> 00:25:54,679 People talk about the Liverpool sound. 569 00:25:54,679 --> 00:25:56,222 "Oh, The Beatles put that on the map." 570 00:25:56,222 --> 00:25:59,184 It's the same thing that these guys did for Jersey. 571 00:25:59,184 --> 00:26:02,228 Bruce, Steven, Southside 572 00:26:02,228 --> 00:26:05,023 put Asbury Park on the map. 573 00:26:18,703 --> 00:26:21,247 You know, back in the day, there wasn't, um, 574 00:26:21,247 --> 00:26:23,083 there wasn't really videos. 575 00:26:23,083 --> 00:26:25,585 You didn't see too many clips. You saw pictures. 576 00:26:25,585 --> 00:26:27,587 When I saw pictures of these guys, 577 00:26:27,587 --> 00:26:29,381 or even pictures of them playing live, 578 00:26:29,381 --> 00:26:32,509 Little Steven had these three-piece suits and hats, 579 00:26:32,509 --> 00:26:33,760 and he'd come and sing 580 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:35,470 these crazy background vocals, 581 00:26:35,470 --> 00:26:36,888 and play guitar, 582 00:26:36,888 --> 00:26:38,556 and they were such a gang, 583 00:26:38,556 --> 00:26:42,018 a group of men to be reckoned with. 584 00:26:42,018 --> 00:26:43,269 They scared me. 585 00:26:43,269 --> 00:26:46,314 Most groups, whether it was the Sex Pistols, 586 00:26:46,314 --> 00:26:48,233 or early Red Hot Chili Peppers, 587 00:26:48,233 --> 00:26:49,734 they scared you. 588 00:26:49,734 --> 00:26:52,028 Ramones, they were scary. 589 00:26:52,529 --> 00:26:53,988 The E Street Band was the same. 590 00:26:53,988 --> 00:26:57,242 Some pictures from The River, all dressed in black, 591 00:26:57,242 --> 00:26:58,785 looked like they maybe dressed up 592 00:26:58,785 --> 00:27:00,495 for a wedding, but... 593 00:27:01,162 --> 00:27:03,665 the way they were dressed, maybe gonna be a funeral. 594 00:27:09,713 --> 00:27:11,381 You couldn't tell who was playing 595 00:27:11,381 --> 00:27:12,799 what guitar on the records. 596 00:27:12,799 --> 00:27:15,427 You'd try to figure that out when you were listening. 597 00:27:15,427 --> 00:27:18,638 But you could hear those distinctive background vocals. 598 00:27:18,638 --> 00:27:20,098 He's just all over it. 599 00:27:20,098 --> 00:27:22,934 ♪ Ooh, girl I got a crush on you ♪ 600 00:27:22,934 --> 00:27:26,146 ♪ I said ooh, girl I got a crush on you... ♪ 601 00:27:26,146 --> 00:27:28,398 I was like, "Wow, this is rock and roll." 602 00:27:28,815 --> 00:27:30,108 This is that camaraderie 603 00:27:30,108 --> 00:27:32,777 that, like, gang thing that I look for, 604 00:27:33,194 --> 00:27:35,905 and seeing that these guys had this connection. 605 00:27:35,905 --> 00:27:37,532 They could be running down the street, 606 00:27:37,532 --> 00:27:38,908 a certain kind of brotherhood, 607 00:27:38,908 --> 00:27:40,618 and I spotted that right away, 608 00:27:40,618 --> 00:27:43,663 that Mick and Keith thing with him and Bruce. 609 00:27:43,663 --> 00:27:45,290 All right. 610 00:27:45,290 --> 00:27:47,625 ♪ I got some beer ♪ 611 00:27:47,625 --> 00:27:49,753 ♪ And the highway's free ♪ 612 00:27:49,753 --> 00:27:51,546 ♪ And I got you ♪ 613 00:27:51,546 --> 00:27:54,090 ♪ And baby you got me ♪ 614 00:27:55,133 --> 00:27:57,010 Get down, chico. 615 00:28:01,848 --> 00:28:03,975 Of course, Barry. 616 00:28:11,107 --> 00:28:13,777 Born to Run and Darkness on the Edge of Town 617 00:28:13,777 --> 00:28:16,071 were two very tough records to make. 618 00:28:18,323 --> 00:28:21,326 When it came time for The River, I was like, 619 00:28:21,326 --> 00:28:24,162 Bruce, I love you, but I can't go through this again. 620 00:28:24,162 --> 00:28:26,331 It's too much torture. 621 00:28:26,998 --> 00:28:30,085 He was like, "No, you gotta produce this one with me." 622 00:28:30,502 --> 00:28:31,753 Bruce, he says, "You know, 623 00:28:31,753 --> 00:28:34,005 we got this amazing reputation live, 624 00:28:34,005 --> 00:28:37,592 but you know, we can't get it on record, you know? 625 00:28:37,592 --> 00:28:39,678 So you're a band guy, I want you 626 00:28:39,678 --> 00:28:41,262 to produce the record with me, 627 00:28:41,262 --> 00:28:45,350 and let's get the band sound on the record, you know?" 628 00:28:45,767 --> 00:28:47,602 The River is a classic example 629 00:28:47,602 --> 00:28:49,896 of Steve's influence on my music, 630 00:28:49,896 --> 00:28:52,982 and him bringing his best to the table, 631 00:28:52,982 --> 00:28:55,151 and creating something that really was 632 00:28:55,151 --> 00:28:58,071 a creation of the two of us, you know? 633 00:28:58,488 --> 00:29:01,700 I had two strong sounding boards. 634 00:29:01,700 --> 00:29:03,868 I had Jon and I had Steve, 635 00:29:03,868 --> 00:29:06,496 and they did not have the same vision 636 00:29:06,496 --> 00:29:08,164 for the music we were making. 637 00:29:08,164 --> 00:29:09,165 It sounds great. 638 00:29:09,165 --> 00:29:11,167 Their visions were not incompatible, 639 00:29:11,167 --> 00:29:14,838 but significantly off-center with each other. 640 00:29:15,422 --> 00:29:17,882 Steve and I would agree about many things 641 00:29:17,882 --> 00:29:19,300 in the studio. 642 00:29:19,300 --> 00:29:21,094 We also disagreed about many things. 643 00:29:21,094 --> 00:29:22,721 That was good for me, 644 00:29:22,721 --> 00:29:24,514 because I was trying to suss out 645 00:29:24,514 --> 00:29:25,974 where I wanted to go, 646 00:29:25,974 --> 00:29:28,351 and I got the benefit of all those different ideas, 647 00:29:28,351 --> 00:29:30,729 and was able to decide on which way to go 648 00:29:30,729 --> 00:29:32,647 on any particular project. 649 00:29:32,647 --> 00:29:34,232 We were there for the same reason, 650 00:29:34,232 --> 00:29:36,735 which was to make what we were working on 651 00:29:36,735 --> 00:29:38,445 the best it could be. 652 00:29:38,445 --> 00:29:40,405 It was a lot of fun 653 00:29:40,405 --> 00:29:41,656 some of the time. 654 00:29:43,074 --> 00:29:45,910 ♪ Well I wish that I could have myself ♪ 655 00:29:45,910 --> 00:29:47,996 ♪ A seven day weekend ♪ 656 00:29:47,996 --> 00:29:50,582 You know, I was a huge Gary U.S. Bonds fan, 657 00:29:50,582 --> 00:29:52,042 so I came and saw him at a club 658 00:29:52,042 --> 00:29:53,710 here in New Jersey one night, 659 00:29:53,710 --> 00:29:55,086 ended up talking to him, 660 00:29:55,086 --> 00:29:56,921 I said, "Gee, I don't know, 661 00:29:56,921 --> 00:29:59,299 I'd love to produce something for you, you know? 662 00:29:59,299 --> 00:30:01,634 It'd be fun if Stevie and I did it together." 663 00:30:01,634 --> 00:30:04,346 He came in and said, "Look, let's, uh... 664 00:30:04,971 --> 00:30:06,723 why don't we record some stuff?" 665 00:30:06,723 --> 00:30:08,183 And I said, "Sure." 666 00:30:08,183 --> 00:30:11,227 And unbelievably, we have a hit single. 667 00:30:15,231 --> 00:30:16,983 You're on the top of the charts. 668 00:30:16,983 --> 00:30:18,526 Yeah, I like it, man. 669 00:30:18,526 --> 00:30:20,987 Bruce Springsteen, did he produce this album? 670 00:30:20,987 --> 00:30:22,822 Yep, and Miami Steve. 671 00:30:22,822 --> 00:30:25,116 - Miami Steve Van Zandt. - That's it. 672 00:30:25,658 --> 00:30:27,077 I-I don't know how Bruce knew it, 673 00:30:27,077 --> 00:30:29,662 but as one song led to the other, 674 00:30:29,662 --> 00:30:31,039 I started to realize 675 00:30:31,039 --> 00:30:33,792 Gary is one of great soul singers of all time. 676 00:30:33,792 --> 00:30:35,627 We'd like to do a song for you 677 00:30:35,627 --> 00:30:37,837 that was written by Miami Steve Van Zandt. 678 00:30:40,298 --> 00:30:45,136 ♪ It's been a long Long time for us ♪ 679 00:30:46,638 --> 00:30:48,306 ♪ I need to talk ♪ 680 00:30:48,306 --> 00:30:51,142 ♪ But I'm not Strong enough... ♪ 681 00:30:51,142 --> 00:30:52,727 "Daddy's Come Home," 682 00:30:52,727 --> 00:30:54,729 which is still my favorite song, 683 00:30:54,729 --> 00:30:55,980 and it's a ballad. 684 00:30:55,980 --> 00:30:58,775 He likes to get into all the goody-goody, 685 00:30:58,775 --> 00:31:01,528 the kissy-kissy, the huggy-huggy stuff too. 686 00:31:01,986 --> 00:31:04,572 Steven writes emotional songs. 687 00:31:04,572 --> 00:31:06,616 He writes songs from the heart. 688 00:31:06,616 --> 00:31:08,535 He's got a way of turning a phrase, 689 00:31:08,535 --> 00:31:10,286 like Richard Thompson does, 690 00:31:10,286 --> 00:31:13,707 uh, Tom Waits, Bruce, they all have that way of... 691 00:31:13,707 --> 00:31:15,333 You always go, "God damn, 692 00:31:15,333 --> 00:31:17,168 I wish I had written that line." 693 00:31:17,168 --> 00:31:22,924 ♪ Daddy's come home ♪ 694 00:31:24,634 --> 00:31:29,347 ♪ Daddy's come home ♪ 695 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:35,437 ♪ Back where he belongs... ♪ 696 00:31:35,437 --> 00:31:38,189 He hears a lot of stuff. It's amazing. 697 00:31:38,898 --> 00:31:40,859 He can hear horn lines, 698 00:31:40,859 --> 00:31:42,527 and he can hear guitar lines. 699 00:31:42,527 --> 00:31:46,031 You know, there are a lot of cats, they don't hear it. 700 00:31:47,073 --> 00:31:51,411 ♪ Daddy's come home ♪ 701 00:32:04,841 --> 00:32:08,053 This is one of my favorite songs of Steve's, 702 00:32:08,053 --> 00:32:09,888 called "Love Again." 703 00:32:10,347 --> 00:32:12,932 ♪ I've been to The Statue of Liberty ♪ 704 00:32:12,932 --> 00:32:15,018 ♪ So fine and full of grace ♪ 705 00:32:15,018 --> 00:32:16,978 ♪ Lately every girl I meet ♪ 706 00:32:16,978 --> 00:32:19,564 ♪ Has that lady's look On their face ♪ 707 00:32:19,564 --> 00:32:21,775 ♪ I'm not a man For one night stands ♪ 708 00:32:21,775 --> 00:32:23,401 ♪ That's never been Where it's at ♪ 709 00:32:23,401 --> 00:32:25,320 ♪ Maybe I'm A little old fashioned ♪ 710 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:27,947 ♪ But what's So wrong with that? ♪ 711 00:32:29,199 --> 00:32:31,534 Being in the studio with Stevie Van Zandt 712 00:32:31,534 --> 00:32:34,621 was mind-blowing, the things he came up with. 713 00:32:34,621 --> 00:32:36,748 The music that's in his head, 714 00:32:36,748 --> 00:32:38,291 different things he tried. 715 00:32:38,291 --> 00:32:40,502 Steve was an incredible arranger. 716 00:32:40,502 --> 00:32:43,922 It's knowing how to take a particular piece of music 717 00:32:43,922 --> 00:32:46,091 and get the best out of it. 718 00:32:46,091 --> 00:32:48,760 Arrangement to me is all about that, 719 00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:51,388 enhancing the song. 720 00:32:51,930 --> 00:32:55,183 The track in general is there to support 721 00:32:55,183 --> 00:32:57,936 that song being sung by that artist. 722 00:32:57,936 --> 00:33:00,063 The key, really, to a successful arrangement 723 00:33:00,063 --> 00:33:01,981 is nothing conflicting. 724 00:33:01,981 --> 00:33:03,733 Everything's adding. 725 00:33:03,733 --> 00:33:05,485 Here's the horns. 726 00:33:07,153 --> 00:33:09,948 - The backing vocals. 727 00:33:09,948 --> 00:33:11,574 See how they go back and forth? 728 00:33:13,451 --> 00:33:14,619 They answer each other. 729 00:33:14,619 --> 00:33:17,414 ♪ Ah ah ah ♪ 730 00:33:17,414 --> 00:33:19,499 ♪ Ah ah ah ♪ 731 00:33:19,499 --> 00:33:22,585 See, the backing vocals just doing "ah's," 732 00:33:22,585 --> 00:33:25,213 but the horns are actually playing a lick. 733 00:33:25,213 --> 00:33:28,174 And then they... then they all got kind of... 734 00:33:28,174 --> 00:33:30,427 do a, like, a pad together. 735 00:33:32,303 --> 00:33:35,181 That's one of the kinds of things he does. 736 00:33:36,433 --> 00:33:40,228 And the piano is just doing part of the rhythm section. 737 00:33:41,271 --> 00:33:44,524 Steve is very specific about balances. 738 00:33:44,524 --> 00:33:46,651 The fifth bar, the second trumpet 739 00:33:46,651 --> 00:33:48,111 sticking out too much, 740 00:33:48,111 --> 00:33:49,988 he hears all that in his head. 741 00:33:49,988 --> 00:33:53,158 He's a pretty formidable talent, I'd have to say. 742 00:33:53,158 --> 00:33:54,784 - Hello? 743 00:33:54,784 --> 00:33:57,078 I was completely taken and enamored 744 00:33:57,078 --> 00:33:59,247 by everything that Steven touched. 745 00:33:59,247 --> 00:34:00,749 Finally, I said to him, 746 00:34:00,749 --> 00:34:03,418 when we started this record company, EMI America, 747 00:34:03,418 --> 00:34:05,712 I said, you know, "You need to make a record." 748 00:34:05,712 --> 00:34:10,216 Nobody's gonna need a love song sung by a side man. 749 00:34:10,216 --> 00:34:12,677 I'm like, "No, no, you need to do this." 750 00:34:12,677 --> 00:34:16,014 You're one of the greatest songwriters of our day. 751 00:34:16,014 --> 00:34:19,517 You're as good a producer as anybody I know, 752 00:34:19,517 --> 00:34:23,021 and, um, you need to make a record. 753 00:34:23,688 --> 00:34:26,649 Steven, I'm going to kill you if you don't do this. 754 00:34:29,110 --> 00:34:31,237 If I'm gonna do a solo record at that point, 755 00:34:31,237 --> 00:34:34,824 um, I needed to find an identity. 756 00:34:34,824 --> 00:34:36,618 You know, Miami Steve, 757 00:34:36,618 --> 00:34:38,119 the fun guy in the band, 758 00:34:38,119 --> 00:34:40,205 we were like the rock and roll Rat Pack, 759 00:34:40,205 --> 00:34:42,207 and I was the Dean Martin character. 760 00:34:42,207 --> 00:34:43,958 Uh, Bruce is Frank, 761 00:34:43,958 --> 00:34:46,544 and Clarence is Sammy on steroids. 762 00:34:46,544 --> 00:34:49,923 I was the first guy you call if you're gonna have a party. 763 00:34:49,923 --> 00:34:52,342 I thought, "I better kind of introduce myself 764 00:34:52,342 --> 00:34:54,219 or reintroduce myself," you know? 765 00:34:54,219 --> 00:34:56,763 As this new character, Little Steven. 766 00:34:56,763 --> 00:34:58,598 When I first became aware of you, 767 00:34:58,598 --> 00:35:02,018 you were, uh, Miami Steve Van Zandt. 768 00:35:02,018 --> 00:35:03,728 Yeah, that's right! 769 00:35:03,728 --> 00:35:06,398 Now, uh, and now you're Little Steven. 770 00:35:06,398 --> 00:35:08,900 I'm still gonna keep a nickname, 771 00:35:08,900 --> 00:35:10,276 because nicknames suggest 772 00:35:10,276 --> 00:35:12,278 not taking yourself too seriously, 773 00:35:12,278 --> 00:35:15,448 but I wanted to be able to take the work seriously. 774 00:35:15,448 --> 00:35:18,243 I said I'm gonna open the first album 775 00:35:18,243 --> 00:35:21,079 with a song that's gonna explain the rest of my career. 776 00:35:21,079 --> 00:35:22,997 You know, very political. 777 00:35:22,997 --> 00:35:24,249 Ask the question, 778 00:35:24,249 --> 00:35:26,918 "What happened to all our '60s ideals? 779 00:35:26,918 --> 00:35:28,420 Where did they go?" 780 00:35:34,926 --> 00:35:37,178 ♪ Come on, baby ♪ 781 00:35:38,304 --> 00:35:42,267 ♪ Come on, sing with me now ♪ 782 00:35:45,395 --> 00:35:47,731 If there is any such thing 783 00:35:47,731 --> 00:35:49,691 as an Asbury Park sound, 784 00:35:49,691 --> 00:35:51,359 then one of the guys most responsible 785 00:35:51,359 --> 00:35:53,069 is Steve Van Zandt. 786 00:35:53,445 --> 00:35:54,612 Miami Steve is best known 787 00:35:54,612 --> 00:35:56,281 as Bruce Springsteen's guitarist, 788 00:35:56,281 --> 00:35:58,825 but he's also a respected songwriter, 789 00:35:58,825 --> 00:36:00,243 arranger, and producer. 790 00:36:00,243 --> 00:36:03,329 Now he's taking that one final step. 791 00:36:03,329 --> 00:36:05,248 He's fronting his own band, 792 00:36:05,248 --> 00:36:08,043 Little Steven and the Disciples of Soul. 793 00:36:22,682 --> 00:36:24,476 When he made the first album, 794 00:36:24,476 --> 00:36:26,770 that was his step away from Bruce. 795 00:36:26,770 --> 00:36:28,229 Those guys love one another. 796 00:36:28,229 --> 00:36:30,106 It's not the big brother 797 00:36:30,106 --> 00:36:32,067 that you're stepping away from. 798 00:36:32,067 --> 00:36:34,819 It's trying to not feel like 799 00:36:34,819 --> 00:36:36,613 the little brother anymore. 800 00:36:36,613 --> 00:36:39,240 And when Steve made Men Without Women... 801 00:36:39,657 --> 00:36:42,535 ...that's not a little brother's record. 802 00:36:43,244 --> 00:36:45,830 ♪ We always stood On the same block ♪ 803 00:36:45,830 --> 00:36:47,624 ♪ Way back then ♪ 804 00:36:48,917 --> 00:36:50,168 ♪ Waiting to find out ♪ 805 00:36:50,168 --> 00:36:52,837 ♪ Where in the world We fit in ♪ 806 00:36:54,172 --> 00:36:55,840 ♪ Then something On the radio ♪ 807 00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:58,635 ♪ Changed everything We'd been ♪ 808 00:36:59,469 --> 00:37:01,846 ♪ And now I need it, baby ♪ 809 00:37:01,846 --> 00:37:04,099 ♪ Over and over again ♪ 810 00:37:04,766 --> 00:37:09,604 ♪ Where it comes from Baby, I don't know ♪ 811 00:37:09,604 --> 00:37:14,526 ♪ That same old something Just won't let me go ♪ 812 00:37:14,526 --> 00:37:17,570 ♪ Oh it's too late, baby ♪ 813 00:37:17,570 --> 00:37:20,990 ♪ It's been too long ♪ 814 00:37:20,990 --> 00:37:22,659 ♪ Don't try to stop me ♪ 815 00:37:22,659 --> 00:37:25,578 ♪ Till the good is gone ♪ 816 00:37:26,705 --> 00:37:28,498 ♪ It seems like Only yesterday ♪ 817 00:37:28,498 --> 00:37:30,500 ♪ I could hear Big Mama call... ♪ 818 00:37:30,500 --> 00:37:32,168 Men Without Women came out. 819 00:37:32,168 --> 00:37:35,296 It was basically the Southside sound, 820 00:37:35,296 --> 00:37:37,048 but taken to another level. 821 00:37:37,048 --> 00:37:39,009 ♪ One more time Say yeah ♪ 822 00:37:39,009 --> 00:37:41,886 ♪ Yeah, yeah... ♪ 823 00:37:41,886 --> 00:37:43,263 I was coming into it 824 00:37:43,263 --> 00:37:45,348 with quite a lot of knowledge, 825 00:37:45,348 --> 00:37:47,475 but also a lot of expectation. 826 00:37:47,475 --> 00:37:49,352 It feels very organic, 827 00:37:49,352 --> 00:37:50,895 and personal. 828 00:37:51,354 --> 00:37:53,231 I fell in love with those songs. 829 00:37:53,231 --> 00:37:55,483 I met Steven when I was an intern 830 00:37:55,483 --> 00:37:57,360 at Power Station studios. 831 00:37:57,360 --> 00:37:58,695 And this was at a time 832 00:37:58,695 --> 00:38:00,530 when he was starting his solo album, 833 00:38:00,530 --> 00:38:02,282 but he was looking for a specific sound 834 00:38:02,282 --> 00:38:04,034 on a song. 835 00:38:04,034 --> 00:38:06,202 And, uh, Ben Newberry, 836 00:38:06,202 --> 00:38:08,538 his guitar tech, said, "Zoe plays oboe, 837 00:38:08,538 --> 00:38:10,623 is that the sound you're looking for?" 838 00:38:10,623 --> 00:38:11,791 He said, "Yes." 839 00:38:25,263 --> 00:38:26,598 When we finished the record, 840 00:38:26,598 --> 00:38:28,767 he said, "Do you wanna go on tour?" 841 00:38:47,786 --> 00:38:50,455 When he was working on his albums in New York, 842 00:38:50,455 --> 00:38:51,706 we'd meet every Friday 843 00:38:51,706 --> 00:38:54,125 at this little Mexican restaurant, 844 00:38:54,125 --> 00:38:55,418 and then go see a movie. 845 00:38:55,418 --> 00:38:56,920 It was like being a teenager 846 00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:59,673 when you'd get off early on Friday. It was so much fun. 847 00:38:59,673 --> 00:39:01,966 I think I met Jay Cocks 848 00:39:01,966 --> 00:39:03,968 through Marty Scorsese. 849 00:39:03,968 --> 00:39:06,721 And because Marty and Jay were very close, 850 00:39:06,721 --> 00:39:10,141 um, Marty had shown me and Bruce Mean Streets. 851 00:39:10,141 --> 00:39:11,518 We were talking about 852 00:39:11,518 --> 00:39:12,936 making a film about the songs. 853 00:39:12,936 --> 00:39:15,355 That's when I introduced him to John Cassavetes, 854 00:39:15,355 --> 00:39:18,566 who could light anybody up with the idea, 855 00:39:18,566 --> 00:39:20,485 "You can do this, you can make a movie." 856 00:39:20,485 --> 00:39:23,988 These two guys were kindred spirits. 857 00:39:23,988 --> 00:39:26,282 I see at some Santa Monica cinema 858 00:39:26,282 --> 00:39:27,617 that doesn't exist anymore 859 00:39:27,617 --> 00:39:29,953 there's a one week run of the film, 860 00:39:29,953 --> 00:39:31,538 Men Without Women. 861 00:39:31,538 --> 00:39:33,415 I'm like, "I gotta see this fucking thing. 862 00:39:33,415 --> 00:39:36,001 Steve made a movie?" 863 00:39:36,376 --> 00:39:38,003 Uh, so I go, 864 00:39:38,003 --> 00:39:40,588 and it's a rough cut, it's like a lost movie. 865 00:39:40,588 --> 00:39:44,759 I've spoken to Steven since, and I think it's gone. 866 00:39:44,759 --> 00:39:48,179 Let's ask him for the great undiscovered secret, 867 00:39:48,179 --> 00:39:51,099 like the lost footage from The Magnificent Ambersons. 868 00:39:51,099 --> 00:39:52,642 I remember it. 869 00:39:52,642 --> 00:39:55,603 I remember it from... I saw it when it came out. 870 00:39:55,603 --> 00:39:58,231 I haven't seen it since, so that's, I don't know, 871 00:39:58,231 --> 00:40:00,025 30 or 35 years ago, 872 00:40:00,025 --> 00:40:01,860 or whenever it was, you know? 873 00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:21,880 Van Zandt says the film is not a documentary, 874 00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:24,758 although the storyline does parallel his own life. 875 00:40:25,258 --> 00:40:27,010 That's Maureen "Knuckles" Santoro, 876 00:40:27,010 --> 00:40:29,512 who married Van Zandt earlier this year. 877 00:40:31,598 --> 00:40:34,059 Back in '75, at one of those showcase gigs 878 00:40:34,059 --> 00:40:36,895 I was playing with Bruce and the E Street Band, 879 00:40:37,604 --> 00:40:40,148 it is at that Bottom Line gig 880 00:40:40,148 --> 00:40:42,442 where I first met Maureen. 881 00:40:43,568 --> 00:40:45,236 And I see this girl, 882 00:40:45,236 --> 00:40:46,946 and I just go nuts, you know? 883 00:40:46,946 --> 00:40:48,073 I'm like, "Wow, 884 00:40:48,073 --> 00:40:50,533 this is the Brigitte Bardot of New Jersey." 885 00:40:50,533 --> 00:40:52,577 And we talked a little bit afterwards, 886 00:40:52,577 --> 00:40:54,871 and-and that was it. 887 00:40:56,706 --> 00:40:58,625 I talked her into going out with me 888 00:40:58,625 --> 00:41:01,127 like a year later. It took me, like, a year. 889 00:41:01,461 --> 00:41:04,255 Once Steve met Maureen, that was it, you know? 890 00:41:04,255 --> 00:41:06,007 Simple as that, that was it. 891 00:41:09,636 --> 00:41:11,346 I was one of those guys, 892 00:41:11,346 --> 00:41:12,931 never gonna get married. 893 00:41:12,931 --> 00:41:15,308 She was just into all kinds of things, 894 00:41:15,308 --> 00:41:16,810 literature and ballet. 895 00:41:16,810 --> 00:41:19,979 She was way above my level of sophistication. 896 00:41:19,979 --> 00:41:22,607 She turned me on to all of that, 897 00:41:22,607 --> 00:41:25,151 expanded my consciousness tremendously. 898 00:41:25,151 --> 00:41:29,239 She really just, you know, rocked my world, as they say. 899 00:41:29,781 --> 00:41:32,283 You know, I'm very grateful to her for that. 900 00:41:33,076 --> 00:41:36,079 Men Without Women was written when we met. 901 00:41:36,079 --> 00:41:38,998 You feel like someone is opening a window 902 00:41:38,998 --> 00:41:42,419 onto a private thing, your relationship. 903 00:41:49,509 --> 00:41:52,220 On the other hand, it's a really beautiful thing, 904 00:41:52,220 --> 00:41:55,598 and it's what any rock and roll girl would dream of. 905 00:42:02,647 --> 00:42:05,150 He says he's getting married, great, 906 00:42:05,150 --> 00:42:06,985 I'm his best man. 907 00:42:07,485 --> 00:42:09,571 Little Richard's gonna marry him. 908 00:42:09,571 --> 00:42:11,823 Why not? 909 00:42:14,325 --> 00:42:17,454 I don't know who came up with the Little Richard idea. 910 00:42:17,454 --> 00:42:19,831 I know I was completely in agreement with it. 911 00:42:19,831 --> 00:42:22,083 Didn't think it would happen, and it did happen. 912 00:42:22,083 --> 00:42:24,336 We sat down with Little Richard, 913 00:42:24,336 --> 00:42:25,712 tried to explain to him 914 00:42:25,712 --> 00:42:27,505 the kind of service we wanted. 915 00:42:27,839 --> 00:42:30,216 We don't want too much of the Jesus thing. 916 00:42:30,967 --> 00:42:33,678 "Oh, yes, absolutely, absolutely." 917 00:42:34,012 --> 00:42:35,972 At the ceremony, he disregarded 918 00:42:35,972 --> 00:42:37,140 everything we said. 919 00:42:37,140 --> 00:42:39,184 First thing, he's going "Jesus!" 920 00:42:39,184 --> 00:42:41,561 But together you can daily offer 921 00:42:41,561 --> 00:42:43,021 your prayers to God, 922 00:42:43,021 --> 00:42:46,775 and as your love for him grows stronger and stronger, 923 00:42:46,775 --> 00:42:51,196 your love for each other will be purified and strengthened. 924 00:42:54,199 --> 00:42:56,910 It was a classic Steven production. 925 00:42:56,910 --> 00:43:00,372 He had Percy Sledge singing "When a Man Loves a Woman." 926 00:43:00,372 --> 00:43:02,165 Ladies and gentlemen, 927 00:43:03,708 --> 00:43:07,796 Mr. and Mrs. Van Zandt. Meet them. 928 00:43:10,548 --> 00:43:16,805 ♪ When a man loves a woman ♪ 929 00:43:18,390 --> 00:43:20,392 It was way out there. 930 00:43:20,767 --> 00:43:23,103 I was an usher. I'm glad to see that my job, 931 00:43:23,103 --> 00:43:25,271 I did a good job and it worked, right? 932 00:43:25,271 --> 00:43:26,898 That had something to do with it. 933 00:43:31,861 --> 00:43:33,905 I remember when we were kids, 934 00:43:33,905 --> 00:43:35,782 and we heard Little Steven got married, 935 00:43:35,782 --> 00:43:37,617 and Bruce was the best man. 936 00:43:37,617 --> 00:43:39,035 My best man right here. 937 00:43:39,035 --> 00:43:42,122 And it was the wedding band from The Godfather. 938 00:43:43,248 --> 00:43:47,252 ♪ But it really isn't What I need... ♪ 939 00:43:47,919 --> 00:43:51,881 And, uh, I heard it was really great. 940 00:43:52,215 --> 00:43:53,758 I don't remember a thing, 941 00:43:53,758 --> 00:43:55,635 but that's what I heard. 942 00:43:59,597 --> 00:44:03,268 Do you feel like Steven Van Zandt is 943 00:44:03,601 --> 00:44:07,647 living out your fantasy or your dream? 944 00:44:08,106 --> 00:44:09,274 Absolutely. 945 00:44:09,941 --> 00:44:12,444 Seems like yesterday, listening to the radio, 946 00:44:13,153 --> 00:44:15,655 and saying, "Jeez, I'd like to do that." 947 00:44:16,781 --> 00:44:18,074 And then you are, 948 00:44:18,074 --> 00:44:19,492 and that's-that's great. 949 00:44:19,492 --> 00:44:20,952 I feel very lucky about that. 950 00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:27,042 Little Steven and the Disciples of Soul, 951 00:44:27,042 --> 00:44:29,461 - how are you doing? - Hello, Peter, how are you? 952 00:44:29,461 --> 00:44:31,129 What are you doing in your show now? 953 00:44:31,129 --> 00:44:33,882 It's basically rock and roll, um... 954 00:44:34,632 --> 00:44:36,009 with horns, you know? 955 00:44:39,304 --> 00:44:41,890 ♪ Ain't it hard To see through it ♪ 956 00:44:41,890 --> 00:44:44,684 ♪ Don't it hurt your eyes To try ♪ 957 00:44:44,684 --> 00:44:47,562 ♪ It was so much easier Yesterday ♪ 958 00:44:47,562 --> 00:44:50,565 ♪ When all we had to do Was survive ♪ 959 00:44:50,565 --> 00:44:52,984 In my so-called career, 960 00:44:52,984 --> 00:44:56,154 I met the coolest, most important cats. 961 00:44:56,571 --> 00:44:57,739 Frankie Barsalona, 962 00:44:57,739 --> 00:44:59,741 he was the last of the great agents. 963 00:44:59,741 --> 00:45:03,036 The old, uh, promoters were all basically thieves, 964 00:45:03,036 --> 00:45:05,705 and he decided to put his own people in place 965 00:45:05,705 --> 00:45:07,248 the same way that Maranzano 966 00:45:07,248 --> 00:45:10,293 and then Luciano divided the Mob up into regions, 967 00:45:10,293 --> 00:45:13,129 introducing the concept of longevity. 968 00:45:13,129 --> 00:45:16,174 By telling these promoters, "Look, you're gonna lose money 969 00:45:16,174 --> 00:45:19,678 the first-first tour, maybe the second, 970 00:45:19,678 --> 00:45:21,971 you break even on the third, maybe fourth. 971 00:45:21,971 --> 00:45:24,015 From then on, you make money the rest of your life." 972 00:45:24,015 --> 00:45:26,518 This was a radical concept. 973 00:45:26,518 --> 00:45:28,687 He created an industry 974 00:45:28,687 --> 00:45:30,855 that, you know, now could relax 975 00:45:30,855 --> 00:45:33,525 and people could develop. 976 00:45:33,942 --> 00:45:35,610 Because greatness is not born, 977 00:45:35,610 --> 00:45:37,112 greatness is developed, 978 00:45:37,112 --> 00:45:39,531 and I want Bruce to be with Frank. 979 00:45:39,531 --> 00:45:40,907 Frank's the best. 980 00:45:40,907 --> 00:45:42,659 I want Bruce to be with the best. 981 00:45:44,744 --> 00:45:46,287 It was important for Steven that 982 00:45:46,287 --> 00:45:48,164 the E Street Band followed the plan 983 00:45:48,164 --> 00:45:50,208 that Frank had worked out for them. 984 00:45:50,208 --> 00:45:52,877 So from 1975 to 1980, 985 00:45:52,877 --> 00:45:54,504 the E Street Band basically followed 986 00:45:54,504 --> 00:45:56,423 that Frank Barsalona formula. 987 00:45:56,423 --> 00:45:59,300 You know, they went from small clubs, then theaters, 988 00:45:59,300 --> 00:46:01,845 then to bigger places like arenas, 989 00:46:01,845 --> 00:46:03,888 and eventually to stadiums. 990 00:46:03,888 --> 00:46:06,349 By the time they went in to record Born in the USA, 991 00:46:06,349 --> 00:46:07,767 they were poised to become 992 00:46:07,767 --> 00:46:09,102 the biggest band in the world. 993 00:46:13,732 --> 00:46:15,358 On Born in the USA, 994 00:46:15,358 --> 00:46:19,237 Bruce started turning a little more in my direction, 995 00:46:20,488 --> 00:46:24,117 and Stevie wanted to be heard, 996 00:46:24,117 --> 00:46:27,287 and if anything, he wanted to be heard more. 997 00:46:28,371 --> 00:46:31,791 And so that arrangement 998 00:46:31,791 --> 00:46:34,210 that worked well on The River 999 00:46:34,210 --> 00:46:37,714 started to become a little dysfunctional for Stevie. 1000 00:46:37,714 --> 00:46:38,965 He just was not happy. 1001 00:46:38,965 --> 00:46:40,884 Part of the rationalization 1002 00:46:40,884 --> 00:46:42,719 and satisfaction of being a boss 1003 00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:44,346 working for another boss 1004 00:46:44,346 --> 00:46:47,599 was the ability to offer suggestions and advice. 1005 00:46:48,016 --> 00:46:49,726 I liked being the underboss 1006 00:46:49,726 --> 00:46:52,228 in the E Street Band, the consigliere. 1007 00:46:52,228 --> 00:46:54,606 Kept me out of the spotlight, but allowed me to make 1008 00:46:54,606 --> 00:46:56,483 a significant enough contribution 1009 00:46:56,483 --> 00:46:59,611 to justify my own existence in my own mind. 1010 00:46:59,986 --> 00:47:03,907 And there was a balance between me, Bruce, and Jon. 1011 00:47:03,907 --> 00:47:05,617 But somewhere in '83, 1012 00:47:05,617 --> 00:47:08,828 it started to feel like Bruce had stopped listening. 1013 00:47:09,496 --> 00:47:10,997 Fifteen years, 1014 00:47:11,456 --> 00:47:14,417 we finally made it, and I quit... 1015 00:47:15,126 --> 00:47:16,586 the night before payday. 1016 00:47:17,420 --> 00:47:20,173 It was fucking with destiny big time. 1017 00:47:20,757 --> 00:47:22,467 Or was it fulfilling it? 1018 00:47:23,426 --> 00:47:25,345 I think the initial intent 1019 00:47:25,345 --> 00:47:27,639 was not to leave the E Street Band, 1020 00:47:27,639 --> 00:47:30,266 but to just do his own project, 1021 00:47:30,266 --> 00:47:32,769 but then I think it became apparent 1022 00:47:32,769 --> 00:47:34,813 that he needed to... 1023 00:47:34,813 --> 00:47:36,106 to go out and do this. 1024 00:47:36,106 --> 00:47:38,400 We had heard he was going back and forth 1025 00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:40,360 in and out of the studio, and got tunes, 1026 00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:42,904 and some of them are done, some of them aren't. 1027 00:47:42,904 --> 00:47:45,115 And maybe there'll be four or five more, 1028 00:47:45,115 --> 00:47:47,450 and you're not gonna be playing on them? 1029 00:47:47,450 --> 00:47:48,785 We talked about it, 1030 00:47:48,785 --> 00:47:50,954 and-and Bruce may have to 1031 00:47:50,954 --> 00:47:52,872 finish it without me, you know? 1032 00:47:52,872 --> 00:47:55,000 At the time, I thought he was nuts. 1033 00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:56,960 I didn't understand it one bit. 1034 00:47:56,960 --> 00:47:58,712 Uh, I told him so. 1035 00:47:58,712 --> 00:48:01,339 He felt he had to give it his whole 100%, 1036 00:48:01,339 --> 00:48:02,590 do it, you know. 1037 00:48:02,590 --> 00:48:05,135 But, um... hey, 1038 00:48:05,135 --> 00:48:07,679 you gotta follow your dream, your conviction. 1039 00:48:07,679 --> 00:48:10,015 If you don't, what are you following? 1040 00:48:10,015 --> 00:48:13,184 I thought, you know, "You're in a band that's... 1041 00:48:13,727 --> 00:48:15,520 doing phenomenally well, 1042 00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:17,063 having a great time, 1043 00:48:17,063 --> 00:48:19,691 you know, you're working with your best friend. 1044 00:48:20,025 --> 00:48:22,819 Do you wanna risk losing that?" 1045 00:48:23,695 --> 00:48:26,448 Though I started recording solo albums, 1046 00:48:26,448 --> 00:48:28,700 technically I was still producer on the album, 1047 00:48:28,700 --> 00:48:30,535 and still involved in it. 1048 00:48:30,535 --> 00:48:33,705 "Dancing in the Dark" was way till the end. 1049 00:48:33,705 --> 00:48:35,206 They had the record together, 1050 00:48:35,206 --> 00:48:37,083 Jon Landau, the manager, was saying, 1051 00:48:37,083 --> 00:48:38,543 "We're missing one more song, 1052 00:48:38,543 --> 00:48:42,255 we need one more verifiable hit," or something, 1053 00:48:42,630 --> 00:48:44,215 and so Bruce kept trying 1054 00:48:44,215 --> 00:48:46,426 and kept trying, until Steven said, 1055 00:48:46,885 --> 00:48:49,346 "I think I put out two solo records 1056 00:48:49,346 --> 00:48:52,807 in the time it took you to write that one song." 1057 00:48:53,475 --> 00:48:56,227 "You're right. I remember." 1058 00:48:58,063 --> 00:49:00,065 He plays me "Dancing in the Dark" 1059 00:49:00,065 --> 00:49:02,067 and "No Surrender." 1060 00:49:02,067 --> 00:49:04,611 Says, "'Dancing in the Dark' is gonna be on the record, 1061 00:49:04,611 --> 00:49:08,573 and 'No Surrender' is gonna be an outtake, like a B-side." 1062 00:49:09,908 --> 00:49:13,787 And I'm like, "Uh, Bruce, I gotta tell ya, 1063 00:49:14,204 --> 00:49:15,622 you got it backwards. 1064 00:49:15,955 --> 00:49:17,999 I don't know about 'Dancing in the Dark,' 1065 00:49:17,999 --> 00:49:19,751 but this 'No Surrender,' 1066 00:49:19,751 --> 00:49:21,294 this is what it's all about." 1067 00:49:21,753 --> 00:49:23,088 This is for, uh... 1068 00:49:23,088 --> 00:49:25,256 This is for Little Steven. He's... 1069 00:49:25,256 --> 00:49:27,592 - He's got... 1070 00:49:30,136 --> 00:49:33,014 He's got a record out called Voice of America now. 1071 00:49:33,390 --> 00:49:36,101 "No Surrender" was something I was going to take off, 1072 00:49:36,101 --> 00:49:38,770 but he said, "No, you've got to keep it on." 1073 00:49:39,354 --> 00:49:41,773 And I was afraid it was too one-dimensional, 1074 00:49:41,773 --> 00:49:44,859 or-or... but he-he really... 1075 00:49:45,235 --> 00:49:47,946 when he came in at the end and said, "No, that's... 1076 00:49:48,405 --> 00:49:49,989 that's gotta be on the record, 1077 00:49:49,989 --> 00:49:52,450 man, that's what it's all about, you know?" 1078 00:49:52,450 --> 00:49:54,744 It's funny he did that, 'cause it's a song 1079 00:49:54,744 --> 00:49:56,538 that speaks more to who Stevie is 1080 00:49:56,538 --> 00:49:58,123 than maybe to who I am, 1081 00:49:58,123 --> 00:50:00,875 but it said something about us also together. 1082 00:50:07,465 --> 00:50:09,134 Making a decision to leave 1083 00:50:09,134 --> 00:50:11,636 an iconic band like the E Street Band 1084 00:50:11,636 --> 00:50:13,304 had to be... 1085 00:50:14,139 --> 00:50:15,974 probably one of the most significant 1086 00:50:15,974 --> 00:50:17,475 decisions in his life. 1087 00:50:18,935 --> 00:50:20,729 That album featured two songs 1088 00:50:20,729 --> 00:50:23,773 that seemed to be about Bruce and Steven's relationship. 1089 00:50:23,773 --> 00:50:25,150 "Bobby Jean," 1090 00:50:25,150 --> 00:50:27,485 where one of the friends goes out on their own, 1091 00:50:27,485 --> 00:50:30,113 and "No Surrender," which seems to be about 1092 00:50:30,113 --> 00:50:32,490 their promises to each other over time. 1093 00:50:32,490 --> 00:50:34,951 Only Bruce and Steven know if those songs 1094 00:50:34,951 --> 00:50:36,411 reveal something they could never 1095 00:50:36,411 --> 00:50:39,164 bring themselves to say to each other in person. 1096 00:50:39,164 --> 00:50:42,500 ♪ Then we busted Out of class ♪ 1097 00:50:42,500 --> 00:50:46,087 ♪ Had to get away From those fools ♪ 1098 00:50:46,463 --> 00:50:50,467 ♪ We learned more from A three-minute record, baby ♪ 1099 00:50:50,467 --> 00:50:53,636 ♪ Than we ever Learned in school... ♪ 1100 00:50:53,636 --> 00:50:56,348 He did need to take a shot at that point. 1101 00:50:56,681 --> 00:50:59,100 The night we talked about him leaving was, 1102 00:50:59,100 --> 00:51:01,227 we talked, "Let's not throw the baby out 1103 00:51:01,227 --> 00:51:03,021 with the bath water. 1104 00:51:03,021 --> 00:51:04,647 You know, I think that, 1105 00:51:04,647 --> 00:51:07,400 all I know is you're one of my deepest friends. 1106 00:51:07,692 --> 00:51:09,694 I need that relationship. 1107 00:51:10,070 --> 00:51:11,988 I don't want that to disappear." 1108 00:51:12,364 --> 00:51:15,617 ♪ Well we made a promise ♪ 1109 00:51:15,617 --> 00:51:19,913 ♪ We swore We'd always remember ♪ 1110 00:51:20,372 --> 00:51:23,208 ♪ No retreat, baby ♪ 1111 00:51:23,208 --> 00:51:27,045 ♪ No surrender ♪ 1112 00:51:27,045 --> 00:51:29,631 I think he just needed his independence, 1113 00:51:29,631 --> 00:51:31,716 and, uh, um... 1114 00:51:32,425 --> 00:51:35,136 so I was as supportive as I could be, 1115 00:51:35,136 --> 00:51:38,723 but I felt badly about him not being in the band. 1116 00:51:41,393 --> 00:51:43,978 It was difficult and painful, 1117 00:51:43,978 --> 00:51:46,940 and, uh, not my favorite chapter 1118 00:51:46,940 --> 00:51:48,900 in what we've done, you know? 1119 00:52:11,297 --> 00:52:13,299 Politics in rock began 1120 00:52:13,299 --> 00:52:15,051 with the first two sentences 1121 00:52:15,051 --> 00:52:17,637 of Bob Dylan's "Subterranean Homesick Blues." 1122 00:52:17,637 --> 00:52:20,223 "Johnny's in the basement mixing up the medicine, 1123 00:52:20,223 --> 00:52:21,349 I'm on the pavement 1124 00:52:21,349 --> 00:52:22,851 thinking about the government." 1125 00:52:22,851 --> 00:52:24,769 Thinking about the government? 1126 00:52:25,937 --> 00:52:28,440 Well, why would you do that? 1127 00:52:38,241 --> 00:52:40,243 We're on our first European tour, man, 1128 00:52:40,243 --> 00:52:42,579 we're breaking, we've broken through. 1129 00:52:43,955 --> 00:52:48,126 He and I went to East Berlin in 1980, 1130 00:52:48,126 --> 00:52:49,836 just the two of us, one afternoon. 1131 00:52:49,836 --> 00:52:52,797 You know, they confiscated your reading material. 1132 00:52:52,797 --> 00:52:54,049 You could go over there, 1133 00:52:54,049 --> 00:52:56,968 but it was a very, very oppressed society. 1134 00:52:58,011 --> 00:53:01,139 And I believe that that was part of the beginning 1135 00:53:01,139 --> 00:53:03,850 of his awakening to... 1136 00:53:03,850 --> 00:53:05,477 political ideas, 1137 00:53:05,477 --> 00:53:08,730 and wanting to include it in his music. 1138 00:53:10,148 --> 00:53:15,195 ♪ Checkpoint Charlie ♪ 1139 00:53:15,195 --> 00:53:20,825 ♪ Walls so wide, Can't get around it ♪ 1140 00:53:20,825 --> 00:53:22,911 I'm just walking to a park, 1141 00:53:22,911 --> 00:53:25,705 in Munich, I think it was, somewhere in Germany. 1142 00:53:25,705 --> 00:53:26,998 Some kid asked me, 1143 00:53:26,998 --> 00:53:29,042 why am I putting missiles in his country? 1144 00:53:29,042 --> 00:53:31,127 "No, there's a guitar in that case, kid. 1145 00:53:31,127 --> 00:53:32,379 There's no missiles. 1146 00:53:32,379 --> 00:53:34,005 What are you talking about?" 1147 00:53:34,005 --> 00:53:36,466 And it just would not leave my head. 1148 00:53:37,509 --> 00:53:39,636 It finally occurred to me, "Oh my God, 1149 00:53:39,636 --> 00:53:41,846 this kid isn't looking at me like a rock star, 1150 00:53:41,846 --> 00:53:45,100 or a Democrat, or Republican, or anything else. 1151 00:53:45,100 --> 00:53:46,976 He's looking at me as an American." 1152 00:53:46,976 --> 00:53:48,269 And I'm like... 1153 00:53:48,603 --> 00:53:51,731 "I never thought of myself as an American. 1154 00:53:51,731 --> 00:53:53,316 I'm from New Jersey." 1155 00:53:58,405 --> 00:54:00,865 What part of New Jersey did you grow up in? 1156 00:54:00,865 --> 00:54:03,451 Did I grow up? I guess I did. 1157 00:54:03,910 --> 00:54:06,037 Middletown, New Jersey. 1158 00:54:06,037 --> 00:54:07,539 Right in the middle. 1159 00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:12,836 So Middletown was a very conservative town. 1160 00:54:12,836 --> 00:54:15,714 All the dads went to work, the moms stayed home. 1161 00:54:15,714 --> 00:54:18,800 It was that Leave it to Beaver existence. 1162 00:54:18,800 --> 00:54:20,051 But it was the '60s, 1163 00:54:20,051 --> 00:54:23,138 so the kids were not like that, 1164 00:54:23,138 --> 00:54:25,765 and perfect example was Steven. 1165 00:54:25,765 --> 00:54:28,810 My very Catholic mother divorced my father 1166 00:54:28,810 --> 00:54:30,812 when I was two or three years old, 1167 00:54:30,812 --> 00:54:33,273 which was quite unusual in the '50s. 1168 00:54:33,273 --> 00:54:35,859 Virtually unheard of in the Catholic religion. 1169 00:54:36,234 --> 00:54:38,737 I spent most of my time with Nana Lento, 1170 00:54:39,070 --> 00:54:40,947 the matriarch of the family, 1171 00:54:40,947 --> 00:54:44,826 who, if there is any trace of show business in my DNA, 1172 00:54:44,826 --> 00:54:47,495 it all would have had to have come from her. 1173 00:54:47,495 --> 00:54:50,123 One of my earliest memories is her dancing around 1174 00:54:50,123 --> 00:54:51,750 to Elvis Presley records. 1175 00:54:51,750 --> 00:54:54,544 Until my mother remarried when I was around seven, 1176 00:54:54,544 --> 00:54:57,339 I was brought up by two very strong women. 1177 00:54:57,339 --> 00:54:59,132 How old are you? 1178 00:54:59,132 --> 00:55:00,383 Eight years old. 1179 00:55:00,383 --> 00:55:01,760 You have any other relatives? 1180 00:55:01,760 --> 00:55:04,262 Yeah, I have over 80 of them. 1181 00:55:04,596 --> 00:55:07,182 Steven always talks about being a band guy, 1182 00:55:07,182 --> 00:55:10,101 and I-I think that comes from 1183 00:55:10,101 --> 00:55:11,478 the big family he grew up in. 1184 00:55:11,478 --> 00:55:13,271 We're a very close Italian family, 1185 00:55:13,271 --> 00:55:15,106 and first five years of his life, 1186 00:55:15,106 --> 00:55:16,941 he was living with Nana and Grandpa 1187 00:55:16,941 --> 00:55:18,276 and the aunts and uncles. 1188 00:55:18,276 --> 00:55:20,362 So he's used to having that. 1189 00:55:20,945 --> 00:55:23,782 My grandparents lived five minutes away, 1190 00:55:23,782 --> 00:55:25,950 so we would go there every Sunday, 1191 00:55:25,950 --> 00:55:27,452 and everybody would be there, 1192 00:55:27,452 --> 00:55:29,829 all the cousins, aunts, and uncles. 1193 00:55:30,955 --> 00:55:34,042 My grandfather spoke with a heavy accent. 1194 00:55:34,376 --> 00:55:36,419 He spent a lot of time with the grandkids. 1195 00:55:36,419 --> 00:55:39,297 He taught Steven how to play the mandolin and guitar. 1196 00:55:39,297 --> 00:55:41,591 And I think he started the whole... 1197 00:55:41,591 --> 00:55:43,551 the whole love of music for Steven. 1198 00:55:43,551 --> 00:55:45,136 Steven Van Zandt is your real name? 1199 00:55:45,136 --> 00:55:46,304 Yes. 1200 00:55:46,304 --> 00:55:48,556 Do you have Dutch ancestors, or... 1201 00:55:48,556 --> 00:55:51,059 No, I was adopted when I was young. 1202 00:55:51,059 --> 00:55:53,770 I'm a-I actually have Italian blood. 1203 00:55:53,770 --> 00:55:56,439 How about singing a little song for us? 1204 00:55:56,439 --> 00:55:58,191 ♪ Oh ♪ 1205 00:55:58,191 --> 00:56:00,485 ♪ Goodbye, my Coney Island ♪ 1206 00:56:00,485 --> 00:56:01,861 ♪ Baby... ♪ 1207 00:56:01,861 --> 00:56:04,030 My brother and sister are 1208 00:56:04,030 --> 00:56:05,657 much younger than me, you know, 1209 00:56:05,657 --> 00:56:08,493 seven years younger and 11 years younger. 1210 00:56:08,993 --> 00:56:11,538 And unfortunately, I feel really bad about it now. 1211 00:56:11,538 --> 00:56:13,206 I never spent much time with them. 1212 00:56:13,206 --> 00:56:16,584 I have one fabulous memory, 1213 00:56:16,584 --> 00:56:18,670 um, with my brother... 1214 00:56:19,671 --> 00:56:21,923 that I, among all the other gratitude 1215 00:56:21,923 --> 00:56:23,341 I have for the Beatles. 1216 00:56:23,341 --> 00:56:24,884 We had, um, 1217 00:56:25,176 --> 00:56:26,594 these transistor radios. 1218 00:56:26,594 --> 00:56:28,346 At night, you go to bed, 1219 00:56:28,346 --> 00:56:29,848 and under the covers, you know, 1220 00:56:29,848 --> 00:56:31,850 you put the radio on and listen to it. 1221 00:56:31,850 --> 00:56:33,977 My brother was in the next bed, 1222 00:56:34,519 --> 00:56:35,854 and so he could hear, 1223 00:56:35,854 --> 00:56:39,357 and, uh, on comes, uh, the Beatles, 1224 00:56:39,357 --> 00:56:41,192 finally getting airplay in America 1225 00:56:41,192 --> 00:56:42,360 on their fifth single, 1226 00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:44,571 with "I Wanna Hold Your Hand," 1227 00:56:45,155 --> 00:56:46,281 and, um... 1228 00:56:46,740 --> 00:56:48,616 when they get to the high part... 1229 00:56:49,200 --> 00:56:51,036 "I wanna hold your hand," 1230 00:56:51,036 --> 00:56:52,370 uh, me and my brother 1231 00:56:52,370 --> 00:56:54,956 just spontaneously burst out laughing. 1232 00:56:54,956 --> 00:56:56,166 You know? 1233 00:56:56,916 --> 00:56:58,835 We didn't have much in common, 1234 00:56:59,377 --> 00:57:01,296 but we had that in common. 1235 00:57:01,296 --> 00:57:03,340 That's how profound 1236 00:57:03,340 --> 00:57:06,634 and how amazing the Beatles music was, 1237 00:57:06,634 --> 00:57:09,054 to cover that big a gap 1238 00:57:09,054 --> 00:57:12,223 with what they were communicating at that moment, 1239 00:57:12,223 --> 00:57:14,059 which you have to define 1240 00:57:14,059 --> 00:57:17,020 as simply unbridled joy. 1241 00:57:17,020 --> 00:57:18,605 When I get this thing going, 1242 00:57:18,605 --> 00:57:20,690 what do you want me to talk about? 1243 00:57:21,107 --> 00:57:22,359 The Beatles. 1244 00:57:22,359 --> 00:57:24,361 Which one do you like best? 1245 00:57:24,361 --> 00:57:25,862 Paul and George. 1246 00:57:25,862 --> 00:57:27,906 Paul and George? Yeah. 1247 00:57:27,906 --> 00:57:30,158 You like Ringo? Yes. 1248 00:57:30,158 --> 00:57:31,701 What song you like best? 1249 00:57:31,701 --> 00:57:33,453 "I Saw Her Standing There." 1250 00:57:33,453 --> 00:57:35,246 How does that go? 1251 00:57:35,246 --> 00:57:36,581 I don't know. 1252 00:57:36,581 --> 00:57:38,875 Well, you're the Beatle expert. 1253 00:57:38,875 --> 00:57:41,378 We were all raised in the Baptist church, 1254 00:57:41,378 --> 00:57:43,129 but it was a pretty serious church. 1255 00:57:43,129 --> 00:57:44,714 Like, your job was to go out 1256 00:57:44,714 --> 00:57:46,341 and witness to other people, 1257 00:57:46,341 --> 00:57:48,218 meaning to bring them into the church. 1258 00:57:48,218 --> 00:57:50,762 I think Steven is as fervent 1259 00:57:50,762 --> 00:57:52,972 and passionate about rock and roll 1260 00:57:52,972 --> 00:57:56,643 as those people in the church were about their religion. 1261 00:57:59,646 --> 00:58:01,940 Out in the darkness... 1262 00:58:03,983 --> 00:58:06,069 there's a voice trying to make sense 1263 00:58:06,069 --> 00:58:08,988 out of a world that's losing its soul. 1264 00:58:09,447 --> 00:58:12,117 A voice that's been silent too long. 1265 00:58:14,661 --> 00:58:16,746 Can't miss out. Best show of the year. 1266 00:58:16,746 --> 00:58:18,498 Ace show. 1267 00:58:19,958 --> 00:58:23,128 ♪ There's a sadness All around us ♪ 1268 00:58:23,670 --> 00:58:27,048 ♪ There are words We're too afraid to say ♪ 1269 00:58:27,048 --> 00:58:31,636 ♪ The things that I thought Would last forever ♪ 1270 00:58:31,636 --> 00:58:33,763 ♪ Are changing every day ♪ 1271 00:58:33,763 --> 00:58:36,433 There were great moments we played Italy, 1272 00:58:36,433 --> 00:58:38,518 he was like a superstar there. 1273 00:58:38,518 --> 00:58:40,020 We played this one show, 1274 00:58:40,020 --> 00:58:43,314 and the girls are trying to rip our clothes off, 1275 00:58:43,314 --> 00:58:45,442 and we played in Verona, 1276 00:58:45,442 --> 00:58:48,153 and as we're pulling up in the cars to the gig, 1277 00:58:48,153 --> 00:58:49,487 the kids are piling on 1278 00:58:49,487 --> 00:58:51,656 and banging our windows and all this stuff, 1279 00:58:51,656 --> 00:58:54,075 so he was getting some of that love too, 1280 00:58:54,075 --> 00:58:56,244 and realized this is what it could be. 1281 00:59:02,834 --> 00:59:05,211 - Okay, you're great. 1282 00:59:05,754 --> 00:59:07,464 At the time we were touring 1283 00:59:07,464 --> 00:59:08,923 on Voice of America, 1284 00:59:08,923 --> 00:59:10,800 Born in the USA had exploded. 1285 00:59:10,800 --> 00:59:13,678 - ♪ The years gone by... ♪ Bruce hit the road, 1286 00:59:13,678 --> 00:59:16,014 it was a slightly different E Street Band. 1287 00:59:16,014 --> 00:59:18,391 Patti Scialfa was on background vocals, 1288 00:59:18,391 --> 00:59:20,727 Nils Lofgren handled guitar. 1289 00:59:20,727 --> 00:59:23,104 I fucking love Nils Lofgren, 1290 00:59:23,104 --> 00:59:26,066 but when Little Steven wasn't there, 1291 00:59:26,066 --> 00:59:29,194 and Nils was, that was like having a stepdad. 1292 00:59:29,861 --> 00:59:31,571 Took me a while to get used to him 1293 00:59:31,571 --> 00:59:33,156 being in the house and... 1294 00:59:33,448 --> 00:59:34,824 fucking my mom. 1295 00:59:36,701 --> 00:59:39,329 And that record Steven co-produced 1296 00:59:39,329 --> 00:59:41,206 had seven Top Ten singles, 1297 00:59:41,206 --> 00:59:43,375 and at that time, I believe it was tied 1298 00:59:43,375 --> 00:59:45,627 for the most of all time. 1299 00:59:46,044 --> 00:59:47,045 Woo! 1300 00:59:47,420 --> 00:59:49,047 Well, that was a tough period. 1301 00:59:49,047 --> 00:59:51,424 It was very strange, because on one hand, 1302 00:59:51,424 --> 00:59:53,385 it was kind of... we were having 1303 00:59:53,385 --> 00:59:55,345 all of this tremendous success, 1304 00:59:56,096 --> 00:59:57,222 and at the time, 1305 00:59:57,222 --> 00:59:59,808 I couldn't share it with Steve, he wasn't there. 1306 00:59:59,808 --> 01:00:02,769 So I think it... I think that would have been... 1307 01:00:03,395 --> 01:00:05,563 It would have been nice at that moment. 1308 01:00:05,563 --> 01:00:09,442 I can imagine that affected Steven somewhat, 1309 01:00:09,442 --> 01:00:13,446 but I can say he was super focused on what he was doing. 1310 01:00:14,072 --> 01:00:17,701 It was a crazy tour. It changed the band a bit. 1311 01:00:17,701 --> 01:00:19,911 What was the reason for dropping the horns? 1312 01:00:19,911 --> 01:00:22,247 As I began to write for the new album, 1313 01:00:22,247 --> 01:00:25,375 I realized I wasn't really writing for horns anymore. 1314 01:00:26,459 --> 01:00:28,253 And you know, I may change every year. 1315 01:00:28,253 --> 01:00:31,339 ♪ What people need What people want ♪ 1316 01:00:31,798 --> 01:00:35,051 ♪ When are we gonna start Talking about that? ♪ 1317 01:00:36,636 --> 01:00:38,471 At the point I was touring with him, 1318 01:00:38,471 --> 01:00:42,684 it was about full-on rock stuff. 1319 01:00:43,685 --> 01:00:46,229 ♪ No more party ♪ 1320 01:00:47,522 --> 01:00:50,400 ♪ No more party ♪ 1321 01:00:50,984 --> 01:00:53,778 ♪ No more party ♪ 1322 01:00:55,405 --> 01:00:57,615 ♪ No more party ♪ 1323 01:00:57,615 --> 01:01:00,910 ♪ Got my own Party right here ♪ 1324 01:01:00,910 --> 01:01:02,620 Have you found it a problem 1325 01:01:02,620 --> 01:01:04,789 that to be in radio, 1326 01:01:04,789 --> 01:01:07,625 radio locked up because of rock music being white, 1327 01:01:07,625 --> 01:01:09,586 and your band is not exactly white, 1328 01:01:09,586 --> 01:01:11,421 it's in between the soul, the Black, 1329 01:01:11,421 --> 01:01:12,630 where do you fit in? 1330 01:01:12,630 --> 01:01:15,258 - We don't. Yeah. 1331 01:01:15,258 --> 01:01:16,384 Uh, so far. 1332 01:01:16,384 --> 01:01:17,969 Has that been a problem? 1333 01:01:17,969 --> 01:01:20,388 It is, yeah, it's a problem for everybody 1334 01:01:20,388 --> 01:01:22,557 who cannot be categorized exactly. 1335 01:01:22,557 --> 01:01:24,684 You know, that's been a problem in radio. 1336 01:01:25,477 --> 01:01:29,230 The look of that band obviously is his creation, 1337 01:01:29,230 --> 01:01:30,732 but not many bands had 1338 01:01:30,732 --> 01:01:33,485 multiracial men and women in it. 1339 01:01:33,985 --> 01:01:37,322 To have brought together a drummer from the Rascals, 1340 01:01:37,864 --> 01:01:39,949 and a bass player from the Plasmatics. 1341 01:01:40,367 --> 01:01:42,952 They should have never met, those two guys. 1342 01:01:43,536 --> 01:01:46,915 I think Steven's philosophy about a band is it's a club. 1343 01:01:46,915 --> 01:01:49,167 And, you know, we had these long coats 1344 01:01:49,167 --> 01:01:51,544 that he made for everyone in the band, 1345 01:01:51,544 --> 01:01:53,838 and those were like our colors. 1346 01:01:53,838 --> 01:01:55,799 I mean, I remember running around Liverpool 1347 01:01:55,799 --> 01:01:57,676 with Maureen with our dusters. 1348 01:01:57,676 --> 01:01:59,135 I mean, we had to represent. 1349 01:01:59,135 --> 01:02:01,096 Steven brought them on David Letterman 1350 01:02:01,096 --> 01:02:03,181 and had the Late Night band wearing them. 1351 01:02:03,181 --> 01:02:05,016 Did you actually bring the clothes 1352 01:02:05,016 --> 01:02:06,685 for the gentlemen in the band? 1353 01:02:06,685 --> 01:02:08,853 - No, I'll tell you the truth. 1354 01:02:08,853 --> 01:02:11,022 I went in the dressing room, brought extra things, 1355 01:02:11,022 --> 01:02:12,732 I go in there, they're gone. 1356 01:02:21,408 --> 01:02:23,993 This is our third trip back to Europe in a year, 1357 01:02:23,993 --> 01:02:26,788 which is unusual, especially for an American band. 1358 01:02:26,788 --> 01:02:27,997 I like it in Europe, 1359 01:02:27,997 --> 01:02:29,833 because I can see America's place 1360 01:02:29,833 --> 01:02:31,751 in the world more clearly. 1361 01:02:32,085 --> 01:02:33,920 We're like ambassadors over here. 1362 01:02:33,920 --> 01:02:35,422 We represent America. 1363 01:02:37,132 --> 01:02:39,384 I feel it's necessary to... 1364 01:02:40,218 --> 01:02:41,511 apologize 1365 01:02:42,178 --> 01:02:44,347 for my government's arrogance, 1366 01:02:44,347 --> 01:02:46,725 - and my people's ignorance... 1367 01:02:46,725 --> 01:02:49,394 ...and I hope you don't judge us too harshly. 1368 01:02:49,394 --> 01:02:50,979 There's voices that do not 1369 01:02:50,979 --> 01:02:53,148 wanna put missiles in your country. 1370 01:02:53,982 --> 01:02:56,943 We need solidarity right now, uh... 1371 01:02:58,361 --> 01:03:00,363 before, uh, it's too late. 1372 01:03:01,031 --> 01:03:04,534 ♪ Where have you gone Desaparecido ♪ 1373 01:03:04,534 --> 01:03:08,747 ♪ I taste your blood In the roots of this land ♪ 1374 01:03:08,747 --> 01:03:12,000 ♪ Where have you gone Desaparecido ♪ 1375 01:03:12,000 --> 01:03:14,210 ♪ Mi querido ♪ 1376 01:03:14,210 --> 01:03:18,173 ♪ Only yesterday I held your hand... ♪ 1377 01:03:38,902 --> 01:03:42,280 Stevie is an all-or-nothing person. 1378 01:03:42,280 --> 01:03:45,617 He's all in, or he's not in. 1379 01:03:45,617 --> 01:03:48,161 And when we first started out, 1380 01:03:48,161 --> 01:03:51,164 Stevie was, "No politics, no politics. 1381 01:03:51,164 --> 01:03:54,751 That's not the way to go about it, that's wrong." 1382 01:03:54,751 --> 01:03:57,462 Then he became all politics. 1383 01:03:57,462 --> 01:03:58,838 It's all politics. 1384 01:03:58,838 --> 01:04:02,133 ♪ Where have you gone Desaparecido ♪ 1385 01:04:02,133 --> 01:04:05,970 ♪ How can they just turn Their backs to our shame ♪ 1386 01:04:05,970 --> 01:04:10,100 ♪ Where have you gone Desaparecido... ♪ 1387 01:04:10,725 --> 01:04:12,394 I felt if I could shine a light 1388 01:04:12,394 --> 01:04:13,645 on some of these things, 1389 01:04:13,645 --> 01:04:15,814 maybe I could, you know, stimulate 1390 01:04:15,814 --> 01:04:17,899 some thought, 1391 01:04:17,899 --> 01:04:20,026 which would stimulate some conversation, 1392 01:04:20,026 --> 01:04:21,611 which would stimulate some action. 1393 01:04:21,611 --> 01:04:24,948 We're supposed to be heroes of democracy and freedom, 1394 01:04:24,948 --> 01:04:26,366 and we weren't. 1395 01:04:30,912 --> 01:04:35,625 ♪ I was standing in Pretoria ♪ 1396 01:04:35,625 --> 01:04:39,546 ♪ Waiting for the sky to fall ♪ 1397 01:04:50,098 --> 01:04:54,936 ♪ Impilo Geyethu Thina Sigidela Phambili ♪ 1398 01:04:54,936 --> 01:04:56,855 Overseas, the violence in South Africa 1399 01:04:56,855 --> 01:04:58,732 is becoming even more commonplace. 1400 01:04:58,732 --> 01:05:00,525 It has returned to Soweto, 1401 01:05:00,525 --> 01:05:03,403 the giant Black township outside Johannesburg. 1402 01:05:03,403 --> 01:05:06,406 Last night in South Africa, three Blacks were killed 1403 01:05:06,406 --> 01:05:09,034 while they were protesting the country's race laws. 1404 01:05:09,034 --> 01:05:12,162 We don't believe, for instance, in the so-called 1405 01:05:12,162 --> 01:05:14,164 guarantees for minority rights, 1406 01:05:14,164 --> 01:05:16,124 because guaranteeing minority rights 1407 01:05:16,124 --> 01:05:17,459 implies the recognition 1408 01:05:17,459 --> 01:05:20,378 of portions of the community on a race basis. 1409 01:05:20,378 --> 01:05:22,881 We believe in our country, there shall be no minority, 1410 01:05:22,881 --> 01:05:25,050 no majorities, just be people. 1411 01:05:25,717 --> 01:05:29,012 I didn't know what was going on in South Africa. 1412 01:05:29,012 --> 01:05:32,182 I hear this song "Biko," by a guy named Peter Gabriel. 1413 01:05:34,934 --> 01:05:39,898 ♪ Biko, because Biko ♪ 1414 01:05:40,482 --> 01:05:43,026 But man, the song was amazing. 1415 01:05:43,026 --> 01:05:45,528 It really led to my engagement 1416 01:05:45,528 --> 01:05:47,155 with activism in general, 1417 01:05:47,155 --> 01:05:49,366 and specifically, the apartheid regime 1418 01:05:49,366 --> 01:05:50,658 of South Africa. 1419 01:05:51,076 --> 01:05:54,204 Political songs were not my genre, 1420 01:05:54,788 --> 01:05:56,081 but in South Africa, 1421 01:05:56,081 --> 01:05:58,041 which had racism enshrined 1422 01:05:58,041 --> 01:06:00,460 in its constitution, in apartheid, 1423 01:06:00,460 --> 01:06:03,088 that was a struggle that connected with me. 1424 01:06:03,088 --> 01:06:05,256 And with Biko's arrest, 1425 01:06:05,256 --> 01:06:07,217 I'm not sure they meant to kill him. 1426 01:06:07,217 --> 01:06:10,095 I'm sure they meant to torture the hell out of him. 1427 01:06:10,095 --> 01:06:12,722 So it was a shock when his death was announced. 1428 01:06:12,722 --> 01:06:14,683 Sunday, September 25th, 1429 01:06:14,683 --> 01:06:16,685 20,000 Black South Africans 1430 01:06:16,685 --> 01:06:18,228 came to mourn Steve Biko, 1431 01:06:18,228 --> 01:06:19,813 the non-violent but militant 1432 01:06:19,813 --> 01:06:21,272 Black radical leader 1433 01:06:21,272 --> 01:06:23,316 who died mysteriously in police custody. 1434 01:06:23,316 --> 01:06:25,360 I couldn't find out much about South Africa, 1435 01:06:25,360 --> 01:06:27,779 it was just very, very mysterious, 1436 01:06:27,779 --> 01:06:29,280 and I had to see it firsthand. 1437 01:06:38,081 --> 01:06:40,125 I think on my second trip, 1438 01:06:40,125 --> 01:06:43,003 I'm in a taxi, I'm going down the street, 1439 01:06:43,003 --> 01:06:46,464 and-and a Black guy steps off the curb, 1440 01:06:47,215 --> 01:06:50,010 and the cab driver swerved to try and hit him. 1441 01:06:50,010 --> 01:06:53,179 I was literally in shock. 1442 01:06:53,179 --> 01:06:57,434 I was like, "Man, let me out the next corner," you know. 1443 01:06:57,434 --> 01:06:59,894 I gotta think about what I just witnessed. 1444 01:06:59,894 --> 01:07:02,230 And at that moment, really, 1445 01:07:02,230 --> 01:07:06,484 um, I went from artist to activist. 1446 01:07:06,484 --> 01:07:09,487 So I'm meeting now with the Azanian People's Organization 1447 01:07:09,487 --> 01:07:13,324 in Soweto and had to sneak in in the back seat of a car, 1448 01:07:13,324 --> 01:07:16,119 because there was a military blockade at the time. 1449 01:07:16,661 --> 01:07:19,080 So they're burning, like, coal fires, 1450 01:07:19,622 --> 01:07:23,710 and there's, uh, like, three feet of, like, fog 1451 01:07:23,710 --> 01:07:25,378 as far as the eye could see. 1452 01:07:25,879 --> 01:07:27,172 And we get to this house, 1453 01:07:27,172 --> 01:07:29,758 and, um, a cat comes out, 1454 01:07:29,758 --> 01:07:31,176 you know, they got machetes, 1455 01:07:31,176 --> 01:07:32,927 and they're the tough guys. 1456 01:07:32,927 --> 01:07:34,471 They're on the front lines, 1457 01:07:34,471 --> 01:07:36,348 they're blowing up radio stations, 1458 01:07:36,348 --> 01:07:38,975 they're killing people, they're the real thing. 1459 01:07:39,225 --> 01:07:41,227 And they're very, very adversarial. 1460 01:07:41,227 --> 01:07:42,729 They don't like that I'm there. 1461 01:07:42,729 --> 01:07:44,939 As far as they're concerned, I'm violating the boycott 1462 01:07:44,939 --> 01:07:46,566 by being there, you know? 1463 01:07:47,359 --> 01:07:49,694 I have to explain to him, I say, "Listen, 1464 01:07:50,153 --> 01:07:51,279 I'm on your side." 1465 01:07:51,279 --> 01:07:53,031 I don't think they were pretending. 1466 01:07:53,031 --> 01:07:55,200 They were thinking about killing me. 1467 01:07:56,242 --> 01:07:58,995 But at that point, I was completely fearless. 1468 01:07:58,995 --> 01:08:03,958 I had lost all-all of, uh, my fear of everything 1469 01:08:03,958 --> 01:08:06,127 on the flight down to South Africa. 1470 01:08:06,544 --> 01:08:10,674 Uh, it occurred to me that I had blown my life, you know? 1471 01:08:11,049 --> 01:08:14,219 Um, 15 years of work with the E Street Band, 1472 01:08:14,219 --> 01:08:16,179 and I quit, and you know, 1473 01:08:16,179 --> 01:08:17,931 I didn't care about anything, 1474 01:08:17,931 --> 01:08:19,766 you know, at that point. 1475 01:08:19,766 --> 01:08:23,269 Uh, so that helped me, uh, you know, stand up to them, 1476 01:08:23,269 --> 01:08:26,272 'cause they were really, you know, you know... 1477 01:08:27,065 --> 01:08:28,233 fingering their machetes 1478 01:08:28,233 --> 01:08:30,068 as they're talking to me, you know? 1479 01:08:30,068 --> 01:08:33,279 I said to them, "You're not gonna win this war 1480 01:08:33,279 --> 01:08:36,574 blowing shit up, okay? And shooting people." 1481 01:08:36,574 --> 01:08:38,076 And they were like, 1482 01:08:38,076 --> 01:08:40,078 "We're not gonna win the war that way? 1483 01:08:40,078 --> 01:08:41,496 How are we gonna win?" 1484 01:08:41,496 --> 01:08:43,498 I said, "I'm gonna win the war on TV." 1485 01:08:54,342 --> 01:08:56,886 I got home and started spreading the word. 1486 01:08:56,886 --> 01:08:58,138 I needed help. 1487 01:08:58,555 --> 01:09:01,182 Steven called and said "I gotta get this idea down, 1488 01:09:01,182 --> 01:09:04,102 so he came to Ben and my apartment 1489 01:09:04,102 --> 01:09:08,690 and we recorded the "Sun City," uh, demo 1490 01:09:08,690 --> 01:09:10,442 on a four-track recorder. 1491 01:09:10,442 --> 01:09:12,277 This is, uh, Danny Schechter 1492 01:09:12,277 --> 01:09:14,446 of GlobalVision and the Media Channel. 1493 01:09:14,446 --> 01:09:17,449 There was four of us, equally important. 1494 01:09:17,449 --> 01:09:20,285 Danny Schechter, who had been a real, um, 1495 01:09:20,285 --> 01:09:21,661 rabble-rouser from way back, 1496 01:09:21,661 --> 01:09:24,164 came from Boston, and had been involved 1497 01:09:24,164 --> 01:09:26,416 with that issue years before me. 1498 01:09:26,416 --> 01:09:30,462 He was the reason why it was publicized at all. 1499 01:09:31,004 --> 01:09:33,048 Arthur Baker offered his studio, 1500 01:09:33,048 --> 01:09:35,133 and his engineers, and his musicians, 1501 01:09:35,133 --> 01:09:36,801 and the record as his phone book. 1502 01:09:37,635 --> 01:09:39,471 When Steve told me about the record, 1503 01:09:39,471 --> 01:09:42,349 I decided I wanted to get involved. 1504 01:09:42,349 --> 01:09:44,184 Hart Perry filmed it. 1505 01:09:44,726 --> 01:09:47,312 If he hadn't filmed, no one would have heard of it, 1506 01:09:47,312 --> 01:09:49,397 because American radio wouldn't play it. 1507 01:09:49,397 --> 01:09:51,232 It was too Black for white radio, 1508 01:09:51,232 --> 01:09:52,817 too white for Black radio. 1509 01:09:53,485 --> 01:09:56,321 Any one of those four guys were not involved, 1510 01:09:56,321 --> 01:09:57,655 it wouldn't have happened. 1511 01:09:57,655 --> 01:10:00,283 I said, "Steven, we should do something." 1512 01:10:00,283 --> 01:10:02,744 He said, "I've already written a song." 1513 01:10:03,161 --> 01:10:04,746 The track was really catchy. 1514 01:10:04,746 --> 01:10:07,290 And then we started just sort of brainstorming 1515 01:10:07,290 --> 01:10:09,167 who could be on the record. 1516 01:10:09,167 --> 01:10:13,129 And we get together at this, uh, Sunrise Diner 1517 01:10:13,129 --> 01:10:14,506 right on 57th Street. 1518 01:10:14,506 --> 01:10:16,299 We go in there, we'd make a list, 1519 01:10:16,299 --> 01:10:18,718 and we'd draw it on the placemat. 1520 01:10:19,302 --> 01:10:22,764 Sun City is a resort like Las Vegas 1521 01:10:22,764 --> 01:10:25,475 in the middle of what they call homelands. 1522 01:10:25,475 --> 01:10:28,436 The homelands are where the South African government 1523 01:10:28,436 --> 01:10:31,022 is relocating all the South African Blacks 1524 01:10:31,022 --> 01:10:32,691 against their will. 1525 01:10:32,691 --> 01:10:34,984 So what happens is they pay a lot of money 1526 01:10:34,984 --> 01:10:36,361 for people to come down. 1527 01:10:36,361 --> 01:10:38,363 Every time somebody goes down and plays, 1528 01:10:38,363 --> 01:10:39,698 they are justifying 1529 01:10:39,698 --> 01:10:41,991 South Africa's relocation policy. 1530 01:10:41,991 --> 01:10:45,870 ♪ We're rockers and rappers United and strong ♪ 1531 01:10:45,870 --> 01:10:48,248 ♪ We're here to talk About South Africa ♪ 1532 01:10:48,248 --> 01:10:50,083 ♪ We don't like What's going on ♪ 1533 01:10:50,083 --> 01:10:52,544 - ♪ Tell it ♪ - ♪ Time for some justice ♪ 1534 01:10:52,544 --> 01:10:54,546 - ♪ It's time for the truth ♪ - ♪ Speak it ♪ 1535 01:10:54,546 --> 01:10:56,214 ♪ We've realized ♪ 1536 01:10:56,214 --> 01:10:58,425 ♪ There's only one thing We can do ♪ 1537 01:10:58,425 --> 01:10:59,551 ♪ We gotta say I... ♪ 1538 01:10:59,551 --> 01:11:01,136 There was nothing like it. 1539 01:11:01,136 --> 01:11:02,637 Steven got together 1540 01:11:02,637 --> 01:11:04,514 with different genres of music. 1541 01:11:04,514 --> 01:11:07,058 Rockers, punk rockers, 1542 01:11:07,058 --> 01:11:09,227 rappers, R&B stars. 1543 01:11:09,602 --> 01:11:12,188 And the amount of artists that were involved. 1544 01:11:12,188 --> 01:11:13,857 I was an early Midnight Oil fan. 1545 01:11:13,857 --> 01:11:17,527 You know, Peter Garrett to Peter Gabriel to Bono. 1546 01:11:17,527 --> 01:11:19,988 God almighty, you got two of the Temptations, 1547 01:11:19,988 --> 01:11:21,740 Eddie Kendricks, David Ruffin. 1548 01:11:21,740 --> 01:11:23,867 I was always big on the Temptations, 1549 01:11:23,867 --> 01:11:26,745 so just seeing them is like seeing God. 1550 01:11:26,745 --> 01:11:29,205 I remembered Lou Reed's in the thing. 1551 01:11:29,205 --> 01:11:31,416 People will get the word eventually, but... 1552 01:11:31,416 --> 01:11:33,418 It seeps in like osmosis. 1553 01:11:33,418 --> 01:11:36,838 You could tell it was gonna be something monumental, 1554 01:11:36,838 --> 01:11:38,214 because of who was there, 1555 01:11:38,214 --> 01:11:40,342 and the main thing, why they was there, 1556 01:11:40,342 --> 01:11:42,010 and everybody's passion 1557 01:11:42,010 --> 01:11:44,137 for what the project stood for. 1558 01:11:44,137 --> 01:11:46,514 We should impose sanctions. 1559 01:11:46,514 --> 01:11:49,309 The only sanction a rock performer can impose 1560 01:11:49,309 --> 01:11:51,561 is to say, "We're not gonna come and play 1561 01:11:51,561 --> 01:11:53,438 until you do things right." 1562 01:11:53,897 --> 01:11:57,025 This country prides itself in being the land of the free. 1563 01:11:57,025 --> 01:11:58,401 We should be able to understand 1564 01:11:58,401 --> 01:11:59,944 most people who want to be free, 1565 01:11:59,944 --> 01:12:01,112 and support them. 1566 01:12:01,112 --> 01:12:02,655 This is a continuation 1567 01:12:02,655 --> 01:12:06,159 of what I've preached all my life about Apartheid. 1568 01:12:06,159 --> 01:12:09,079 It fills me full of joy to participate. 1569 01:12:09,079 --> 01:12:11,456 I had a call from Steven, he said, 1570 01:12:11,456 --> 01:12:13,416 "This is how I heard about 1571 01:12:13,416 --> 01:12:14,959 what was going on in South Africa." 1572 01:12:14,959 --> 01:12:17,587 It wasn't "Let's all hold hands, drink Coca-Cola 1573 01:12:17,587 --> 01:12:19,214 and say the word peace." 1574 01:12:19,214 --> 01:12:21,883 It was about actually there's something wrong 1575 01:12:21,883 --> 01:12:23,551 that we need to fix. 1576 01:12:23,551 --> 01:12:25,512 Rage is at the heart of rock and roll, 1577 01:12:25,512 --> 01:12:27,472 and you can direct it at the people 1578 01:12:27,472 --> 01:12:29,099 who are oppressing you, 1579 01:12:29,099 --> 01:12:30,725 or you can direct it at people 1580 01:12:30,725 --> 01:12:32,852 who are oppressing other people, 1581 01:12:33,436 --> 01:12:35,855 who can live in far-off lands. 1582 01:12:36,356 --> 01:12:38,942 As a Black South African, I cannot vote. 1583 01:12:38,942 --> 01:12:42,237 And as a Black South African, I cannot own land. 1584 01:12:42,237 --> 01:12:44,656 As a Black South African, 1585 01:12:44,656 --> 01:12:47,158 I am not allowed to get married 1586 01:12:47,158 --> 01:12:49,327 to someone from another city. 1587 01:12:49,661 --> 01:12:52,372 So, you know, from the cradle to the grave, 1588 01:12:52,372 --> 01:12:53,998 if you're Black in South Africa, 1589 01:12:53,998 --> 01:12:56,292 you need government permission to exist. 1590 01:12:57,168 --> 01:12:59,629 I think people will sit and listen. 1591 01:12:59,629 --> 01:13:01,965 Nobody is really aware 1592 01:13:01,965 --> 01:13:04,384 of everything that's going on in South Africa, 1593 01:13:04,384 --> 01:13:07,053 and I think this will make people really aware. 1594 01:13:07,053 --> 01:13:08,680 It wasn't about egos or anything. 1595 01:13:08,680 --> 01:13:10,598 We were just all happy to do it. 1596 01:13:10,598 --> 01:13:12,267 With everybody on that album, 1597 01:13:12,267 --> 01:13:13,852 it's completely different voices, 1598 01:13:13,852 --> 01:13:17,022 and different temperaments, and everybody fit in. 1599 01:13:17,022 --> 01:13:19,524 ♪ Relocation ♪ 1600 01:13:19,524 --> 01:13:21,526 ♪ To phony homelands ♪ 1601 01:13:21,526 --> 01:13:25,238 ♪ Separation of families I can't understand ♪ 1602 01:13:25,822 --> 01:13:29,659 ♪ 23 million can't vote Because they're Black ♪ 1603 01:13:29,659 --> 01:13:33,538 ♪ We're stabbing our brothers And sisters in the back ♪ 1604 01:13:33,538 --> 01:13:34,914 ♪ We're gonna say I ♪ 1605 01:13:34,914 --> 01:13:36,916 ♪ I, I, I, I ♪ 1606 01:13:36,916 --> 01:13:40,712 ♪ Ain't gonna play Sun City... ♪ 1607 01:13:41,296 --> 01:13:42,422 I'll try and cue you. 1608 01:13:42,422 --> 01:13:44,299 There's a part where there's na-na's. 1609 01:13:44,299 --> 01:13:45,717 Na-na. 1610 01:13:45,717 --> 01:13:47,552 ♪ Na-na na-na-na na ♪ 1611 01:13:47,552 --> 01:13:49,471 ♪ Na-na-na, yeah ♪ 1612 01:13:49,804 --> 01:13:51,973 ♪ Well this quiet diplomacy ♪ 1613 01:13:51,973 --> 01:13:55,393 ♪ Ain't nothing but a joke I'm gonna say ♪ 1614 01:13:56,144 --> 01:13:58,563 The ability to get all those artists on board, 1615 01:13:58,563 --> 01:14:00,690 something that was political, 1616 01:14:00,690 --> 01:14:03,318 was quite a feat of, amongst many other things, 1617 01:14:03,318 --> 01:14:04,819 salesmanship. 1618 01:14:04,819 --> 01:14:07,364 Which Steve is pretty good at. 1619 01:14:07,364 --> 01:14:08,740 - All this... - Thank you. 1620 01:14:08,740 --> 01:14:11,159 ...is a Little Steven production. 1621 01:14:11,159 --> 01:14:12,702 I'm still impressed how he gathered 1622 01:14:12,702 --> 01:14:14,746 all of these different people together, 1623 01:14:14,746 --> 01:14:17,749 and everybody at that time was in their prime. 1624 01:14:17,749 --> 01:14:21,002 On the day that we recorded Miles Davis, 1625 01:14:21,002 --> 01:14:23,880 we were not sure that he was even coming. 1626 01:14:23,880 --> 01:14:26,299 And we were all on pins and needles, 1627 01:14:26,299 --> 01:14:27,634 and then I get the call. 1628 01:14:28,009 --> 01:14:30,178 One of those magical times in the studio 1629 01:14:30,178 --> 01:14:31,596 that become part of your life. 1630 01:14:37,268 --> 01:14:39,312 This, I'm jumping at the chance 1631 01:14:39,312 --> 01:14:41,022 to do this, this one. 1632 01:14:41,314 --> 01:14:43,274 South Africa makes me ill, 1633 01:14:43,274 --> 01:14:46,486 sick all over, everything. 1634 01:14:46,486 --> 01:14:48,613 When I think about it, I can't do nothing. 1635 01:14:48,613 --> 01:14:50,281 I can't even play. 1636 01:14:59,833 --> 01:15:02,419 There will be a lot of different versions 1637 01:15:02,419 --> 01:15:04,004 on the, uh, on the record. 1638 01:15:04,004 --> 01:15:06,965 It could be either five or six versions. 1639 01:15:06,965 --> 01:15:08,800 The more great performances we get, 1640 01:15:08,800 --> 01:15:10,468 the more versions. 1641 01:15:10,468 --> 01:15:11,678 And it turned out 1642 01:15:11,678 --> 01:15:13,847 that six versions of "Sun City" 1643 01:15:13,847 --> 01:15:17,892 were produced simply out of the creative process. 1644 01:15:17,892 --> 01:15:20,895 And then Bono flew in from Africa, 1645 01:15:20,895 --> 01:15:24,232 and Keith Richards was around, Ron Wood, 1646 01:15:24,232 --> 01:15:25,525 and their last song, 1647 01:15:25,525 --> 01:15:27,944 called "Silver and Gold," was created. 1648 01:15:28,361 --> 01:15:31,031 You know, the dirty little secret here 1649 01:15:31,031 --> 01:15:35,452 is none of us wants to get that call, 1650 01:15:35,452 --> 01:15:38,496 where the other artist is going to ask you 1651 01:15:38,496 --> 01:15:40,331 to put down what you were doing 1652 01:15:40,331 --> 01:15:42,292 to take up their cross, 1653 01:15:42,292 --> 01:15:45,337 to follow them on some mission. 1654 01:15:45,337 --> 01:15:48,006 He corralled all of us. 1655 01:15:48,465 --> 01:15:50,925 Steven understood that perhaps 1656 01:15:50,925 --> 01:15:54,596 that rock 'n' roll owed a debt to the continent of Africa. 1657 01:16:03,480 --> 01:16:05,065 The Malopoets, 1658 01:16:05,065 --> 01:16:06,691 uh, have some members 1659 01:16:06,691 --> 01:16:08,526 that still live in South Africa, 1660 01:16:08,526 --> 01:16:10,028 and I asked them, uh... 1661 01:16:10,028 --> 01:16:12,947 It could be dangerous to be on this record. 1662 01:16:12,947 --> 01:16:15,492 Who knows what reprisals may happen. 1663 01:16:15,492 --> 01:16:18,286 They told me, "We have to be on this record." 1664 01:16:18,870 --> 01:16:20,789 Somebody tells you they're ready to die 1665 01:16:20,789 --> 01:16:22,749 to be on a record, you know... 1666 01:16:23,750 --> 01:16:24,876 that's commitment. 1667 01:16:25,210 --> 01:16:28,672 Though the Black South African suffering is horrifying, 1668 01:16:28,672 --> 01:16:31,174 they do not ask us for our pity. 1669 01:16:31,883 --> 01:16:35,595 All they ask us is that we look at them and see them, 1670 01:16:35,970 --> 01:16:38,723 because by seeing them, we see ourselves. 1671 01:16:38,723 --> 01:16:41,393 Okay, well you should come in on the first "I." 1672 01:16:41,393 --> 01:16:44,312 Jonathan Demme, who shot the thing, 1673 01:16:44,312 --> 01:16:46,981 was just the A-1 cat. 1674 01:16:46,981 --> 01:16:49,401 Shooting on the video is happening 1675 01:16:49,401 --> 01:16:51,194 in two countries at once, 1676 01:16:51,194 --> 01:16:53,655 um, England and America, and on two coasts, 1677 01:16:53,655 --> 01:16:55,824 New York and California. 1678 01:16:56,241 --> 01:16:57,534 It was planned to bring 1679 01:16:57,534 --> 01:16:59,536 this huge number of artists into town, 1680 01:16:59,536 --> 01:17:01,746 and to gather them together some way or other 1681 01:17:01,746 --> 01:17:03,915 to, um, do a-a unity, 1682 01:17:03,915 --> 01:17:06,209 a unified image of everybody singing together. 1683 01:17:06,209 --> 01:17:09,129 And, um, the night before we had to shoot, 1684 01:17:09,129 --> 01:17:10,880 Little Steven had the great idea 1685 01:17:10,880 --> 01:17:12,924 of doing it in Washington Square. 1686 01:17:12,924 --> 01:17:15,343 All this was happening at once. On one day, 1687 01:17:15,343 --> 01:17:16,845 Godley and Creme were shooting 1688 01:17:16,845 --> 01:17:18,763 Ringo and Zak Starr in London, 1689 01:17:18,763 --> 01:17:20,807 while we were shooting Eddie Kendrick, 1690 01:17:20,807 --> 01:17:23,476 and Lou Reed, and Rubén Blades, in New York. 1691 01:17:23,476 --> 01:17:25,645 And then the next day, 1692 01:17:25,645 --> 01:17:27,063 Hart Perry went out to Los Angeles 1693 01:17:27,063 --> 01:17:29,733 to get Bob Dylan and Jackson Browne. 1694 01:17:29,733 --> 01:17:32,027 - ♪ Relocation ♪ - ♪ Relocation ♪ 1695 01:17:32,027 --> 01:17:34,320 - ♪ To phony homelands ♪ - ♪ Phony homelands... ♪ 1696 01:17:34,320 --> 01:17:35,447 George Clinton, 1697 01:17:35,447 --> 01:17:36,614 who's incredible in the piece. 1698 01:17:36,614 --> 01:17:38,616 I'm glad it's becoming more clear 1699 01:17:38,616 --> 01:17:39,951 what's going on over there. 1700 01:17:39,951 --> 01:17:41,786 So maybe the awareness will help 1701 01:17:41,786 --> 01:17:43,997 make a change there, I'm quite sure it will. 1702 01:17:43,997 --> 01:17:48,043 Actually, I was making music videos at the time, 1703 01:17:48,043 --> 01:17:50,128 and I figured, "Wow, you know, uh, 1704 01:17:50,128 --> 01:17:53,006 this is like a music documentary. 1705 01:17:53,006 --> 01:17:56,176 I'll take my camera and just start shooting." 1706 01:17:57,093 --> 01:17:59,304 Steve says, "Here comes Bruce now." 1707 01:17:59,304 --> 01:18:00,805 So now I'm expecting to see 1708 01:18:00,805 --> 01:18:03,475 like, a whole entourage, 1709 01:18:03,475 --> 01:18:04,851 and bodyguards, 1710 01:18:04,851 --> 01:18:06,770 and he came around the corner 1711 01:18:06,770 --> 01:18:09,064 by himself, hands in his pocket. 1712 01:18:09,064 --> 01:18:11,608 I was like, "Wow, that's big right there." 1713 01:18:11,608 --> 01:18:13,985 And he was hot as a firecracker, you know? 1714 01:18:13,985 --> 01:18:16,905 It wasn't glossy, it wasn't showbiz-y. 1715 01:18:16,905 --> 01:18:18,823 He really consciously kept it 1716 01:18:18,823 --> 01:18:22,118 with "We don't need this to go to Hollywood," 1717 01:18:22,118 --> 01:18:24,621 'cause we go Hollywood, you miss the point. 1718 01:18:24,621 --> 01:18:27,499 So when you edit like Harlem streets, 1719 01:18:27,499 --> 01:18:30,585 and then you go and edit some of the African streets, 1720 01:18:30,585 --> 01:18:34,339 it almost match, you know, with that same type of vibe 1721 01:18:34,339 --> 01:18:36,174 and that grittiness. 1722 01:18:36,174 --> 01:18:39,678 You know, back in the days, like, if you go to school, 1723 01:18:39,678 --> 01:18:41,554 and somebody call you an African, 1724 01:18:41,554 --> 01:18:43,473 you would be ready to fight them. 1725 01:18:43,473 --> 01:18:45,016 Because what they had put in all 1726 01:18:45,016 --> 01:18:46,643 the history books and stuff, 1727 01:18:46,643 --> 01:18:48,853 they made all Africans look like savages. 1728 01:18:48,853 --> 01:18:50,939 So if somebody say, "Yo, you an African," 1729 01:18:50,939 --> 01:18:53,525 it was like somebody talking about your mother. 1730 01:18:53,525 --> 01:18:55,026 That's the race thing. 1731 01:18:55,026 --> 01:18:57,821 It's like a con job, but they made Black people 1732 01:18:57,821 --> 01:19:00,532 the main focus of what the con is, you know? 1733 01:19:00,532 --> 01:19:02,242 'Cause for me, I believe in my heart 1734 01:19:02,242 --> 01:19:04,911 there's really only one race, it's the human race. 1735 01:19:04,911 --> 01:19:06,871 Everything else is like a con game, 1736 01:19:06,871 --> 01:19:09,249 and they, and it works perfectly. 1737 01:19:09,249 --> 01:19:12,711 But, uh, if you're-if you're at the bottom of the con, 1738 01:19:12,711 --> 01:19:15,880 I mean... It's not all that great. 1739 01:19:16,756 --> 01:19:19,217 MTV was pretty segregated. 1740 01:19:19,217 --> 01:19:21,136 You didn't see R&B artists on there. 1741 01:19:21,136 --> 01:19:23,013 You didn't see rap artists on there. 1742 01:19:23,013 --> 01:19:25,056 And when Steven pulled this together, 1743 01:19:25,056 --> 01:19:26,808 it was really ahead of the curve. 1744 01:19:26,808 --> 01:19:29,060 He was just including everyone. 1745 01:19:29,060 --> 01:19:30,895 Hip hop would be over here, 1746 01:19:30,895 --> 01:19:33,106 you know, rock and roll would be over there. 1747 01:19:33,106 --> 01:19:35,567 Hip hop was more this like the bastard music 1748 01:19:35,567 --> 01:19:36,985 of all the genres. 1749 01:19:36,985 --> 01:19:38,903 We all know what each other's doing, 1750 01:19:38,903 --> 01:19:40,321 but we looking at each other, 1751 01:19:40,321 --> 01:19:42,699 'cause we come from different walks of life. 1752 01:19:42,699 --> 01:19:44,200 Whenever they do these things, 1753 01:19:44,200 --> 01:19:47,120 and this happens unfortunately very frequently, 1754 01:19:47,120 --> 01:19:51,207 they're doing a project that has an international impact, 1755 01:19:51,583 --> 01:19:53,251 they don't call Latin artists. 1756 01:19:53,835 --> 01:19:55,420 "We Are the World." 1757 01:19:56,171 --> 01:19:59,007 You know, "We are the world, except you." 1758 01:19:59,007 --> 01:20:01,009 We all have to be represented. 1759 01:20:01,009 --> 01:20:02,844 Whatever problem exists, 1760 01:20:02,844 --> 01:20:05,472 it's not just one nationality's problem. 1761 01:20:05,472 --> 01:20:06,931 It's everyone's problem. 1762 01:20:06,931 --> 01:20:08,683 It's a good moment for us 1763 01:20:08,683 --> 01:20:09,893 to look at the racism 1764 01:20:09,893 --> 01:20:11,936 and the prejudice that still exists 1765 01:20:11,936 --> 01:20:13,229 in our own backyard. 1766 01:20:13,229 --> 01:20:15,482 It's a moment we should reinvestigate 1767 01:20:15,482 --> 01:20:17,025 our own racial problems. 1768 01:20:17,025 --> 01:20:19,402 People try to put it across as propaganda, 1769 01:20:19,402 --> 01:20:22,197 that it's the left or right. This is apolitical. 1770 01:20:22,197 --> 01:20:24,407 Doesn't matter what side. It's common sense. 1771 01:20:24,407 --> 01:20:28,370 It was like the whole music industry came together. 1772 01:20:28,828 --> 01:20:30,955 It was almost like you felt you belonged. 1773 01:20:30,955 --> 01:20:33,458 ♪ Oh whoa whoa whoa ♪ 1774 01:20:33,458 --> 01:20:36,127 ♪ Na-na na-na-na ♪ 1775 01:20:36,127 --> 01:20:39,130 ♪ Na-na-na yeah ♪ 1776 01:20:39,130 --> 01:20:41,675 The whole band, you know, the E Street Band, 1777 01:20:41,675 --> 01:20:43,259 he felt that all these people 1778 01:20:43,259 --> 01:20:45,595 would be on the right side of history. 1779 01:20:45,595 --> 01:20:47,222 What separated Little Steven 1780 01:20:47,222 --> 01:20:50,183 was some kind of righteous anger. 1781 01:20:50,684 --> 01:20:52,185 Steven was really informed 1782 01:20:52,185 --> 01:20:54,854 and very outspoken about apartheid. 1783 01:20:54,854 --> 01:20:56,356 He spoke at the United Nations, 1784 01:20:56,356 --> 01:20:59,275 and I remember him going on the Donahue show. 1785 01:20:59,901 --> 01:21:02,153 We're in New York City talking about "Sun City," 1786 01:21:02,153 --> 01:21:05,115 the most politically aggressive maneuver 1787 01:21:05,115 --> 01:21:07,117 in the history of rock 'n' roll. 1788 01:21:07,117 --> 01:21:10,495 That video is totally misrepresentative 1789 01:21:10,495 --> 01:21:11,788 of the true facts. 1790 01:21:11,788 --> 01:21:14,749 Why should Sun City then be linked 1791 01:21:14,749 --> 01:21:17,002 with what you saw up there? 1792 01:21:17,002 --> 01:21:19,796 Let's get to the truth now. We wanna talk about truth. 1793 01:21:19,796 --> 01:21:21,923 Uh, this is the truth. 1794 01:21:22,674 --> 01:21:24,551 It's not Sun City itself, 1795 01:21:24,551 --> 01:21:27,220 the entertainment complex that's the problem. 1796 01:21:27,220 --> 01:21:29,681 It's where it is, and where it is 1797 01:21:29,681 --> 01:21:32,017 is where people are not free 1798 01:21:32,017 --> 01:21:33,643 to go where they want to go. 1799 01:21:33,643 --> 01:21:34,853 They're there because 1800 01:21:34,853 --> 01:21:36,479 they have been relocated forcibly. 1801 01:21:36,479 --> 01:21:37,856 They've been put on a truck, 1802 01:21:37,856 --> 01:21:40,025 and taken hundreds of miles from their home, 1803 01:21:40,025 --> 01:21:43,361 and dropped in this area, and they cannot leave. 1804 01:21:43,361 --> 01:21:45,280 They cannot get visas or passports, 1805 01:21:45,280 --> 01:21:46,865 their citizenship has been stripped. 1806 01:21:46,865 --> 01:21:48,408 And no one in the world 1807 01:21:48,408 --> 01:21:50,493 recognizes this as an independent country, 1808 01:21:50,493 --> 01:21:52,871 except for the South African government. 1809 01:21:52,871 --> 01:21:54,539 The single has sold well 1810 01:21:54,539 --> 01:21:56,124 since its release yesterday, 1811 01:21:56,124 --> 01:21:58,043 and is getting a lot of radio play. 1812 01:21:58,043 --> 01:21:59,919 We asked the people at Tower Records 1813 01:21:59,919 --> 01:22:02,547 to play "Sun City." Customers listen to lyrics 1814 01:22:02,547 --> 01:22:06,259 such as "23 million can't vote because they're Black, 1815 01:22:06,259 --> 01:22:09,095 we're stabbing our brothers and sisters in the back." 1816 01:22:09,095 --> 01:22:11,139 Some of the lyrics are a little critical, 1817 01:22:11,139 --> 01:22:13,683 and when you're dealing with the public, 1818 01:22:13,683 --> 01:22:15,101 you have to be careful. 1819 01:22:15,101 --> 01:22:17,562 - Would you buy this song? - Yes, I would. 1820 01:22:18,355 --> 01:22:21,358 ♪ Quiet diplomacy Ain't nothing but a joke ♪ 1821 01:22:21,358 --> 01:22:25,153 - ♪ We're gonna say ♪ - ♪ I, I, I, I ♪ 1822 01:22:25,153 --> 01:22:27,906 ♪ Ain't gonna play Sun City ♪ 1823 01:22:27,906 --> 01:22:30,909 ♪ Hey, hey, hey, hey, I... ♪ 1824 01:22:30,909 --> 01:22:33,203 The system of apartheid, it's not recognized 1825 01:22:33,203 --> 01:22:34,996 by any government in the world, 1826 01:22:34,996 --> 01:22:36,498 except South Africa. 1827 01:22:36,498 --> 01:22:37,582 It's like Nazism. 1828 01:22:38,625 --> 01:22:40,752 The song, "Sun City" 1829 01:22:41,086 --> 01:22:42,754 is an affirmation of the resolve 1830 01:22:42,754 --> 01:22:44,506 of the community of artists 1831 01:22:44,506 --> 01:22:46,132 to contribute to awakening 1832 01:22:46,132 --> 01:22:48,635 the public's social consciousness, 1833 01:22:48,635 --> 01:22:50,387 to put an end to this inhuman 1834 01:22:50,387 --> 01:22:54,057 and totally unacceptable policy. 1835 01:22:54,891 --> 01:22:56,976 It was an incredible creation. 1836 01:22:56,976 --> 01:22:59,479 In my opinion, it's a very historic piece of music 1837 01:22:59,479 --> 01:23:02,065 that really, I think, had an effect on apartheid, 1838 01:23:02,065 --> 01:23:04,109 and the way it was seen around the world. 1839 01:23:04,109 --> 01:23:06,486 We have Band Aid, we've had USA For Africa, 1840 01:23:06,486 --> 01:23:07,445 we had Live Aid, 1841 01:23:07,445 --> 01:23:08,947 Artists United Against Apartheid, 1842 01:23:08,947 --> 01:23:10,407 Farm Aid, Fashion Aid. 1843 01:23:10,407 --> 01:23:11,700 You think there might be 1844 01:23:11,700 --> 01:23:13,159 too many aid records? 1845 01:23:13,159 --> 01:23:15,620 No, I think-I think, um, 1846 01:23:15,620 --> 01:23:17,122 as long as there's injustice 1847 01:23:17,122 --> 01:23:20,667 and problems in the world, we should talk about them, 1848 01:23:20,667 --> 01:23:23,461 and rock and roll is the best communication we have. 1849 01:23:28,174 --> 01:23:30,301 Ronnie Reagan can't hear that, come on. 1850 01:23:30,301 --> 01:23:32,012 There's a political element 1851 01:23:32,012 --> 01:23:33,513 in rock and roll anyway. 1852 01:23:33,513 --> 01:23:34,806 It is you saying, 1853 01:23:34,806 --> 01:23:36,141 "I'm doing this 1854 01:23:36,141 --> 01:23:37,517 no matter what people think." 1855 01:23:37,517 --> 01:23:39,978 But when he started to actually do things, 1856 01:23:39,978 --> 01:23:42,814 and say things about politics, 1857 01:23:42,814 --> 01:23:44,649 he politicized rock and roll. 1858 01:23:44,649 --> 01:23:46,609 We've been quiet too long. 1859 01:23:47,235 --> 01:23:49,404 We've been patient too long. 1860 01:23:53,366 --> 01:23:55,994 We the people will no longer tolerate 1861 01:23:55,994 --> 01:23:57,454 the terrorism 1862 01:23:57,454 --> 01:24:00,373 of the government of South Africa. 1863 01:24:00,790 --> 01:24:02,292 Tell 'em, Steve. 1864 01:24:05,211 --> 01:24:06,880 We'll no longer do business 1865 01:24:07,339 --> 01:24:08,590 with those who do business 1866 01:24:08,590 --> 01:24:11,092 with the terrorist government of South Africa. 1867 01:24:11,092 --> 01:24:13,428 The fact he's partially responsible for 1868 01:24:13,428 --> 01:24:15,347 bringing down a government is extraordinary. 1869 01:24:15,347 --> 01:24:18,391 I don't know if anybody talks about that anymore. 1870 01:24:18,767 --> 01:24:21,603 We the people demand 1871 01:24:22,020 --> 01:24:24,856 the unconditional release of Nelson Mandela. 1872 01:24:27,692 --> 01:24:31,654 We always knew he had a kind of feistiness. 1873 01:24:32,364 --> 01:24:34,574 The surprise was how organized he was. 1874 01:24:37,619 --> 01:24:39,746 ♪ Na-na na-na-na ♪ 1875 01:24:39,746 --> 01:24:41,873 ♪ Na-na-na yeah ♪ 1876 01:24:41,873 --> 01:24:45,001 ♪ Yeah yeah yeah ♪ 1877 01:24:45,001 --> 01:24:46,961 ♪ Na-na na-na-na ♪ 1878 01:24:46,961 --> 01:24:49,881 ♪ Na-na-na yeah ♪ 1879 01:24:56,054 --> 01:25:00,392 Keep the pressure on! 1880 01:25:00,392 --> 01:25:03,228 And I didn't know about apartheid, I was 12, 13, 1881 01:25:03,228 --> 01:25:06,272 and I learned about it because I saw that video. 1882 01:25:07,148 --> 01:25:09,192 There was a bill passed 1883 01:25:09,192 --> 01:25:11,277 um, in the Congress, 1884 01:25:11,277 --> 01:25:13,238 the Anti-Apartheid Act, 1885 01:25:13,238 --> 01:25:15,990 and it was essentially economic sanctions 1886 01:25:15,990 --> 01:25:17,867 against South Africa, 1887 01:25:17,867 --> 01:25:20,537 until they ended apartheid, 1888 01:25:20,537 --> 01:25:23,039 and it was vetoed by Ronald Reagan. 1889 01:25:23,039 --> 01:25:24,332 Steve called me, 1890 01:25:24,332 --> 01:25:26,418 and he knew what the situation was. 1891 01:25:26,418 --> 01:25:28,920 The Congress was now gonna vote 1892 01:25:28,920 --> 01:25:31,256 to override the veto, or not. 1893 01:25:31,256 --> 01:25:34,050 To override one of his vetoes was, 1894 01:25:34,050 --> 01:25:36,344 uh, quite a, quite a challenge. 1895 01:25:36,344 --> 01:25:37,595 He stepped forward, said, 1896 01:25:37,595 --> 01:25:39,431 "I'm gonna be part of that process," 1897 01:25:39,431 --> 01:25:42,100 and he came down, and made persuasive cases 1898 01:25:42,100 --> 01:25:43,435 to a number of senators, 1899 01:25:43,435 --> 01:25:46,479 and it's very impressive we succeeded. 1900 01:25:46,479 --> 01:25:49,441 We overrode the president's veto. 1901 01:25:49,858 --> 01:25:52,861 And that was the end. Once the banks cut them off, 1902 01:25:52,861 --> 01:25:54,821 they had to let Mandela out of jail. 1903 01:25:57,615 --> 01:26:00,285 There's Mr. Nelson Mandela, 1904 01:26:00,285 --> 01:26:04,039 a free man, taking his first steps 1905 01:26:04,456 --> 01:26:06,541 into a new South Africa. 1906 01:26:09,085 --> 01:26:11,004 It was the most thrilling moment of my life. 1907 01:26:11,004 --> 01:26:12,589 Mandela came here. 1908 01:26:12,589 --> 01:26:15,300 There was a whole celebration for Nelson Mandela 1909 01:26:15,300 --> 01:26:16,885 at the Tribeca Grill. 1910 01:26:16,885 --> 01:26:19,971 So Robert De Niro was there, like everybody was there. 1911 01:26:19,971 --> 01:26:23,933 Steven is really the-the, uh... 1912 01:26:24,809 --> 01:26:28,313 the person who started this, the whole thing here, 1913 01:26:28,313 --> 01:26:30,899 and I thank him, and we all thank him. 1914 01:26:30,899 --> 01:26:32,942 And we can tell 1915 01:26:33,318 --> 01:26:35,487 the movie companies we work for 1916 01:26:35,862 --> 01:26:39,157 we do not want our films to be distributed in South Africa. 1917 01:26:40,533 --> 01:26:44,621 We can... we can tell the record companies 1918 01:26:44,621 --> 01:26:46,623 we don't want our records to be sold. 1919 01:26:46,623 --> 01:26:50,418 We have power, and we have to take advantage of it. 1920 01:26:50,418 --> 01:26:52,671 Little Steven, ladies and gentlemen. 1921 01:26:59,386 --> 01:27:01,346 Ladies and gentlemen, Deputy President 1922 01:27:01,346 --> 01:27:03,515 of the African National Congress, 1923 01:27:03,890 --> 01:27:04,933 Nelson Mandela. 1924 01:27:09,187 --> 01:27:10,563 I never felt that before. 1925 01:27:10,563 --> 01:27:14,693 You know, like, he had, like, an aura, you know? 1926 01:27:15,026 --> 01:27:18,780 Of-of a... of spirituality. 1927 01:27:19,489 --> 01:27:22,242 My mother and I got to meet him. Wonderful man, 1928 01:27:22,242 --> 01:27:25,495 who said, "You must be very proud of your brother." 1929 01:27:27,455 --> 01:27:29,666 And now I'm gonna cry. 1930 01:27:29,666 --> 01:27:32,502 That's impressive. Politicians can't do that, 1931 01:27:32,502 --> 01:27:34,045 presidents can't do that. 1932 01:27:34,045 --> 01:27:37,215 But he did pull all those people together 1933 01:27:37,215 --> 01:27:40,051 and made a change in the world. 1934 01:27:40,051 --> 01:27:41,636 That is the way to go. 1935 01:27:41,636 --> 01:27:44,848 Indeed, years later, that's exactly the way I went. 1936 01:27:44,848 --> 01:27:49,185 I followed him right down those marbled halls 1937 01:27:49,185 --> 01:27:51,813 and through those oak doors, 1938 01:27:51,813 --> 01:27:54,065 and made my own case, 1939 01:27:54,065 --> 01:27:56,151 um, against extreme poverty. 1940 01:27:56,151 --> 01:27:57,736 But I followed his example. 1941 01:27:58,111 --> 01:28:00,071 A lot of people, especially once we did 1942 01:28:00,071 --> 01:28:01,197 the "Sun City" thing, 1943 01:28:01,197 --> 01:28:03,533 you know, started to connect, 1944 01:28:03,533 --> 01:28:06,995 you know, the whole rock music to politics. 1945 01:28:06,995 --> 01:28:08,496 It was starting to reach people 1946 01:28:08,496 --> 01:28:10,790 in the way I was hoping to reach them. 1947 01:28:11,166 --> 01:28:14,169 The song itself was an irrefutable jam 1948 01:28:14,169 --> 01:28:15,670 that featured perhaps the most 1949 01:28:15,670 --> 01:28:18,006 revolutionary gathering of musicians 1950 01:28:18,006 --> 01:28:20,050 ever heard on a recording. 1951 01:28:20,050 --> 01:28:21,801 It was an inspired song, 1952 01:28:21,801 --> 01:28:23,261 an inspired video, 1953 01:28:23,261 --> 01:28:25,180 and it inspired American youth 1954 01:28:25,180 --> 01:28:26,931 who were part of the global movement, 1955 01:28:26,931 --> 01:28:29,976 which eventually pressured apartheid out of existence. 1956 01:28:29,976 --> 01:28:32,020 For me and most people I know, 1957 01:28:32,020 --> 01:28:33,438 music did that. 1958 01:28:33,438 --> 01:28:35,023 You know, we came up in a time 1959 01:28:35,023 --> 01:28:37,942 of the Live Aid concerts, the Amnesty International, 1960 01:28:37,942 --> 01:28:40,278 and I know there were predecessors to that. 1961 01:28:40,278 --> 01:28:43,031 Whether it be George Harrison or Pete Seeger, 1962 01:28:43,031 --> 01:28:44,532 this was a formative time, 1963 01:28:44,532 --> 01:28:46,659 and it had a huge impact on me. 1964 01:28:48,620 --> 01:28:50,455 We got something going on in America 1965 01:28:50,455 --> 01:28:52,332 that they're calling... 1966 01:28:53,124 --> 01:28:55,043 "New Patriotism," you know? 1967 01:28:56,211 --> 01:28:57,837 But, uh... 1968 01:28:58,588 --> 01:29:01,216 It don't look like no new patriotism to me. 1969 01:29:01,216 --> 01:29:04,094 It looks like blind nationalism, you know? 1970 01:29:05,970 --> 01:29:09,432 That ain't right. That ain't what patriotism is all about. 1971 01:29:09,432 --> 01:29:12,352 My friend had a copy, on one of those Beta tapes, 1972 01:29:12,352 --> 01:29:14,062 of a performance they did 1973 01:29:14,062 --> 01:29:16,481 on a German show called Rock Palace. 1974 01:29:17,524 --> 01:29:18,817 And I remember it 1975 01:29:18,817 --> 01:29:21,069 because he did a great introduction 1976 01:29:21,069 --> 01:29:22,612 to the song "I'm a Patriot," 1977 01:29:22,612 --> 01:29:26,074 where he talked about early onset nationalism 1978 01:29:26,074 --> 01:29:27,659 back in the States. 1979 01:29:28,326 --> 01:29:30,286 Being a good patriot means you question 1980 01:29:30,286 --> 01:29:33,707 every motherfucker everywhere every time. 1981 01:29:35,875 --> 01:29:37,919 It sure ain't about parties, you know? 1982 01:29:37,919 --> 01:29:41,131 Loyalty to the party instead of loyalty to the truth. 1983 01:29:42,674 --> 01:29:46,386 He understands the need to utilize 1984 01:29:46,386 --> 01:29:49,931 music not just as a means for escape reality, 1985 01:29:49,931 --> 01:29:53,518 but to document it, and/or confront it. 1986 01:29:53,518 --> 01:29:55,520 Especially Steven, at a time when, 1987 01:29:55,520 --> 01:29:58,231 you know, Reagan and all that stuff was in America, 1988 01:29:58,231 --> 01:30:00,400 like to go to that direction, it's brave. 1989 01:30:00,400 --> 01:30:03,194 ♪ Listen I ain't no communist ♪ 1990 01:30:03,194 --> 01:30:04,487 ♪ Yeah ♪ 1991 01:30:04,487 --> 01:30:06,322 ♪ I ain't no capitalist ♪ 1992 01:30:06,322 --> 01:30:07,449 ♪ Yeah ♪ 1993 01:30:07,449 --> 01:30:08,908 ♪ I ain't no socialist ♪ 1994 01:30:08,908 --> 01:30:09,951 ♪ Yeah ♪ 1995 01:30:09,951 --> 01:30:12,037 ♪ I sure ain't No imperialist ♪ 1996 01:30:12,037 --> 01:30:13,204 ♪ Yeah ♪ 1997 01:30:13,204 --> 01:30:14,748 ♪ I ain't no Democrat ♪ 1998 01:30:14,748 --> 01:30:15,874 ♪ Yeah ♪ 1999 01:30:15,874 --> 01:30:18,418 ♪ I sure ain't no Fucking Republican ♪ 2000 01:30:18,793 --> 01:30:21,212 ♪ I only know one party ♪ 2001 01:30:21,212 --> 01:30:24,049 ♪ Its name is freedom ♪ 2002 01:30:24,049 --> 01:30:26,468 ♪ Say it, I am ♪ 2003 01:30:26,468 --> 01:30:30,221 ♪ I am, I am ♪ 2004 01:30:30,221 --> 01:30:33,099 ♪ I am a patriot ♪ 2005 01:30:33,099 --> 01:30:36,728 I used to be part of little benefits in San Diego, 2006 01:30:36,728 --> 01:30:39,647 I was working a midnight shift security job, 2007 01:30:39,647 --> 01:30:43,568 and that was one of the songs that really could connect. 2008 01:30:43,985 --> 01:30:46,821 ♪ And the river shall open For the righteous ♪ 2009 01:30:46,821 --> 01:30:49,699 ♪ And the river shall open For the righteous... ♪ 2010 01:30:49,699 --> 01:30:52,077 So I kind of dissected the song 2011 01:30:52,077 --> 01:30:54,662 and made a version of it. 2012 01:30:54,662 --> 01:30:57,415 ♪ I was walking ♪ 2013 01:30:57,415 --> 01:31:00,168 ♪ With my brother ♪ 2014 01:31:00,168 --> 01:31:03,129 ♪ And he wondered ♪ 2015 01:31:03,129 --> 01:31:05,757 ♪ Oh, how I am ♪ 2016 01:31:05,757 --> 01:31:07,467 I'm gonna leave you with this song. 2017 01:31:07,467 --> 01:31:09,427 This is about my favorite song, 2018 01:31:09,427 --> 01:31:10,929 written by Little Steven. 2019 01:31:10,929 --> 01:31:13,598 I think it was '86, Amnesty International, 2020 01:31:13,598 --> 01:31:16,434 I saw Jackson Browne play a version, 2021 01:31:16,434 --> 01:31:18,228 and that was really exciting. 2022 01:31:18,228 --> 01:31:20,855 ♪ I am a patriot... ♪ 2023 01:31:23,483 --> 01:31:26,027 Stevie was a huge influence on me 2024 01:31:26,027 --> 01:31:28,238 at a time when I was trying to write 2025 01:31:28,238 --> 01:31:30,240 songs about what I cared about. 2026 01:31:30,240 --> 01:31:32,492 And that I hadn't even dared to try 2027 01:31:32,492 --> 01:31:34,536 to talk about it in a song. 2028 01:31:34,536 --> 01:31:37,831 ♪ She said, "I want To run like the lion ♪ 2029 01:31:37,831 --> 01:31:40,542 ♪ Released From the cages..." ♪ 2030 01:31:40,542 --> 01:31:42,627 I would say that probably 2031 01:31:42,627 --> 01:31:44,629 most people who come to my concerts 2032 01:31:44,629 --> 01:31:46,297 think that that's my song. 2033 01:31:46,715 --> 01:31:49,300 I take the trouble to tell them whose song it is. 2034 01:31:49,300 --> 01:31:50,885 I've told him, I said, "Steve, 2035 01:31:50,885 --> 01:31:54,347 I'm sure a lot of people think I wrote this, you know." 2036 01:31:54,681 --> 01:31:56,099 Usually, as a writer, 2037 01:31:56,099 --> 01:32:00,020 you're more concerned with saying too much, you know? 2038 01:32:00,395 --> 01:32:02,439 I was concerned with not saying enough. 2039 01:32:02,814 --> 01:32:05,817 And Jackson Browne doing one of your songs is wild, 2040 01:32:05,817 --> 01:32:07,819 and then Eddie Vedder also would do it. 2041 01:32:07,819 --> 01:32:11,573 Such an endorsement, you know, such a-such a, uh, 2042 01:32:11,573 --> 01:32:13,283 such a wonderful validation 2043 01:32:13,283 --> 01:32:14,743 of what you're doing, you know? 2044 01:32:14,743 --> 01:32:16,745 We still play it this day. 2045 01:32:16,745 --> 01:32:18,913 We've played it fast, we've played it slow. 2046 01:32:18,913 --> 01:32:21,708 You can take that-that car of a song, 2047 01:32:21,708 --> 01:32:23,960 get in a demolition derby, and you will win. 2048 01:32:23,960 --> 01:32:29,549 ♪ And the river shall Open for the righteous ♪ 2049 01:32:30,175 --> 01:32:33,136 ♪ And the river shall Open for the righteous ♪ 2050 01:32:33,136 --> 01:32:34,429 ♪ Someday ♪ 2051 01:32:34,429 --> 01:32:36,848 ♪ I'm a patriot... ♪ 2052 01:32:37,265 --> 01:32:40,852 You know, whatever, whatever side of the fence, 2053 01:32:40,852 --> 01:32:44,105 or if they're leaning on it, um... 2054 01:32:44,981 --> 01:32:46,024 it transmits. 2055 01:32:46,024 --> 01:32:47,692 ♪ Sanctuary... ♪ 2056 01:32:53,698 --> 01:32:55,325 ♪ Sanctuary... ♪ 2057 01:32:59,662 --> 01:33:01,790 His solo records were just filled 2058 01:33:01,790 --> 01:33:03,917 with in-depth political thought. 2059 01:33:03,917 --> 01:33:06,586 There's some kind of adrenaline rush 2060 01:33:06,586 --> 01:33:10,465 that takes place when you start to realize 2061 01:33:10,465 --> 01:33:12,676 why you're on this planet. 2062 01:33:13,385 --> 01:33:16,763 This combination of artist and journalist thing 2063 01:33:17,222 --> 01:33:19,265 where I'm going places, doing research, 2064 01:33:19,265 --> 01:33:22,018 and checking things out, turning it into stories. 2065 01:33:22,018 --> 01:33:25,021 I'm doing something that feels important. 2066 01:33:25,021 --> 01:33:28,733 ♪ America's on trial... ♪ 2067 01:33:28,733 --> 01:33:31,653 I was terrified, because he went into situations 2068 01:33:31,653 --> 01:33:33,571 that I later found out 2069 01:33:33,571 --> 01:33:36,116 were really, really dangerous. 2070 01:33:36,658 --> 01:33:38,076 I thought, "What happened?" 2071 01:33:38,076 --> 01:33:41,079 You know, I marry this fun rock and roll guy, 2072 01:33:41,079 --> 01:33:43,206 and we're going all over the world, 2073 01:33:43,206 --> 01:33:44,666 we're having a great life, 2074 01:33:44,666 --> 01:33:46,918 and all of a sudden, he's in South Africa 2075 01:33:46,918 --> 01:33:48,086 being smuggled 2076 01:33:48,086 --> 01:33:50,588 into some dangerous area under a blanket. 2077 01:33:50,588 --> 01:33:51,840 I didn't know that then. 2078 01:33:51,840 --> 01:33:54,259 While I admired what he was doing, 2079 01:33:54,259 --> 01:33:56,094 I think I really resented it, 2080 01:33:56,094 --> 01:33:58,763 because I felt it was putting everything at risk. 2081 01:33:58,763 --> 01:34:01,599 His life, our relationship, 2082 01:34:01,599 --> 01:34:03,560 even his musical life. 2083 01:34:03,560 --> 01:34:06,438 Out of all the disturbing... 2084 01:34:06,438 --> 01:34:10,066 situations around the world, um... 2085 01:34:10,817 --> 01:34:13,570 the single most disturbing was right here, 2086 01:34:13,987 --> 01:34:16,031 with the treatment of Native Americans. 2087 01:34:20,368 --> 01:34:24,497 ♪ Love's been sacrificed ♪ 2088 01:34:24,497 --> 01:34:26,791 ♪ Promises buried beneath ♪ 2089 01:34:26,791 --> 01:34:30,378 ♪ The trail Of broken treaties ♪ 2090 01:34:35,884 --> 01:34:37,802 We celebrated 200 years... 2091 01:34:38,219 --> 01:34:40,096 of our Constitution the other day. 2092 01:34:40,096 --> 01:34:42,599 That's something we should be happy about, 2093 01:34:43,141 --> 01:34:46,227 but until we start honoring Indian treaties, 2094 01:34:46,227 --> 01:34:48,229 the Constitution is a lie. 2095 01:34:48,521 --> 01:34:53,568 ♪ Sing it, I ♪ 2096 01:34:53,568 --> 01:35:00,325 ♪ I am Native American... ♪ 2097 01:35:00,325 --> 01:35:02,827 On the Freedom - No Compromise album, 2098 01:35:02,827 --> 01:35:04,954 the concept was the state. 2099 01:35:04,954 --> 01:35:08,083 Uh, I decided to do three sub-themes. 2100 01:35:08,083 --> 01:35:10,210 There's South Africa, Native America, 2101 01:35:10,210 --> 01:35:12,003 and Latin America. 2102 01:35:13,004 --> 01:35:15,006 Stevie was like a bow and arrow, 2103 01:35:15,006 --> 01:35:17,884 a very well dressed, you know, archer, 2104 01:35:18,343 --> 01:35:21,805 and was shooting those arrows exactly where he aimed them. 2105 01:35:21,805 --> 01:35:24,182 Now, if they hit the right target, 2106 01:35:24,182 --> 01:35:26,768 you're in trouble. He shook people up. 2107 01:35:26,768 --> 01:35:28,144 If you have that in you, 2108 01:35:28,144 --> 01:35:30,772 you were a threat to corporate structures. 2109 01:35:34,150 --> 01:35:37,862 He's such a galvanic humanist, 2110 01:35:38,446 --> 01:35:40,240 that you kind of have to make 2111 01:35:40,240 --> 01:35:43,159 that kind of progression into politics. 2112 01:35:43,159 --> 01:35:45,954 It was political, but it was more 2113 01:35:45,954 --> 01:35:48,748 generally humanistic than that. 2114 01:35:48,748 --> 01:35:51,376 No party line, all compassion, 2115 01:35:51,376 --> 01:35:52,794 all empathy. 2116 01:35:57,382 --> 01:35:59,134 I went to Nicaragua once, 2117 01:35:59,134 --> 01:36:00,885 and then Steve decided to come. 2118 01:36:00,885 --> 01:36:02,929 I mean, he was amazing on this trip. 2119 01:36:02,929 --> 01:36:06,141 He brought nothing but, like, Gatorade and Marlboros. 2120 01:36:06,141 --> 01:36:09,894 And here's this guy who is so well-read, 2121 01:36:09,894 --> 01:36:11,730 and so politically astute, 2122 01:36:11,730 --> 01:36:14,733 but dressed like, you know, like a rock and roll, 2123 01:36:14,733 --> 01:36:17,652 you know, like a dervish or a pirate. 2124 01:36:18,153 --> 01:36:21,698 ♪ Someday we'll reap What we have sown ♪ 2125 01:36:21,698 --> 01:36:25,577 ♪ I don't look east I don't look west ♪ 2126 01:36:26,036 --> 01:36:29,205 ♪ I don't understand Their accents ♪ 2127 01:36:29,706 --> 01:36:35,211 ♪ I will gather no more Of your bitter fruit... ♪ 2128 01:36:35,211 --> 01:36:38,506 What Stevie did meant something. 2129 01:36:38,506 --> 01:36:40,050 This particular song 2130 01:36:40,050 --> 01:36:43,178 had to do with an injustice, 2131 01:36:43,178 --> 01:36:46,431 and that's a good thing that Stevie is teaching people. 2132 01:36:46,681 --> 01:36:48,808 They don't know these stories, 2133 01:36:49,476 --> 01:36:52,520 and it was built with integrity. 2134 01:36:53,063 --> 01:36:55,482 I have the honor and the privilege 2135 01:36:55,940 --> 01:36:57,734 to introduce somebody 2136 01:36:57,734 --> 01:37:01,821 who is not only one of the greatest forces 2137 01:37:01,821 --> 01:37:04,449 in rock and roll on this planet, 2138 01:37:04,449 --> 01:37:06,451 but one of the greatest forces 2139 01:37:06,451 --> 01:37:08,995 for justice and human rights on this planet, 2140 01:37:08,995 --> 01:37:10,830 and that's Little Steven! 2141 01:37:17,879 --> 01:37:19,297 The whole '80s for me, 2142 01:37:19,297 --> 01:37:21,800 I was completely obsessed with politics, 2143 01:37:21,800 --> 01:37:24,302 against all rational thought, you know, 2144 01:37:24,302 --> 01:37:26,680 beginning with leaving the E Street Band. 2145 01:37:27,097 --> 01:37:28,765 But it was more than that. 2146 01:37:29,224 --> 01:37:30,975 Every album had a different theme, 2147 01:37:30,975 --> 01:37:33,269 a different soundtrack, 2148 01:37:33,269 --> 01:37:37,148 which was part of my, uh, problem commercially, 2149 01:37:37,148 --> 01:37:41,236 and part of my artistic, uh, success. 2150 01:37:41,236 --> 01:37:43,905 ♪ Keep the people divided ♪ 2151 01:37:43,905 --> 01:37:46,157 ♪ Keep the energy spent ♪ 2152 01:37:46,157 --> 01:37:48,326 ♪ Keep the people divided ♪ 2153 01:37:48,326 --> 01:37:50,787 ♪ So they don't think About the government ♪ 2154 01:37:50,787 --> 01:37:53,665 ♪ Look at all The pretty children ♪ 2155 01:37:53,665 --> 01:37:55,875 ♪ They all look the same ♪ 2156 01:37:55,875 --> 01:37:58,169 ♪ They don't want Your anger ♪ 2157 01:37:58,169 --> 01:38:00,505 ♪ They don't Share your pain... ♪ 2158 01:38:00,755 --> 01:38:02,340 I'm writing this in 1989. 2159 01:38:02,340 --> 01:38:05,760 The alienation between the workforce and labor 2160 01:38:05,760 --> 01:38:08,346 started to now become contagious, 2161 01:38:08,346 --> 01:38:10,181 and I thought the alienation had now 2162 01:38:10,181 --> 01:38:12,183 moved into the institutions. 2163 01:38:12,183 --> 01:38:14,894 No longer trusted the Church, the government, 2164 01:38:14,894 --> 01:38:16,396 no longer trusted our schools, 2165 01:38:16,396 --> 01:38:19,315 and as now, spreading to the alienation 2166 01:38:19,315 --> 01:38:22,318 from our very life support systems, the environment. 2167 01:38:22,318 --> 01:38:25,238 It's a bit more powerful, more beefy with the sounds 2168 01:38:25,238 --> 01:38:27,657 than a typical dance record, but, um, 2169 01:38:27,657 --> 01:38:29,534 it wasn't anything to do with rock. 2170 01:38:29,534 --> 01:38:31,536 Anyway, uh, that, that... 2171 01:38:31,536 --> 01:38:33,204 uh, confused people 2172 01:38:33,204 --> 01:38:36,207 pretty, pretty, uh, consistently. 2173 01:38:36,708 --> 01:38:39,544 He had the most resolute agenda. 2174 01:38:39,544 --> 01:38:40,962 He had it kind of mapped out 2175 01:38:40,962 --> 01:38:43,006 where he was gonna go with these songs, 2176 01:38:43,006 --> 01:38:45,300 three or four albums deep, 2177 01:38:45,300 --> 01:38:48,261 because he is nothing less than revolutionary. 2178 01:38:48,845 --> 01:38:51,139 This is for, uh, Leonard... 2179 01:38:51,598 --> 01:38:53,475 in Leavenworth Prison. 2180 01:38:54,100 --> 01:38:56,644 I was focused on the international situation. 2181 01:38:57,395 --> 01:38:59,189 But of course, as it turns out, 2182 01:38:59,189 --> 01:39:02,734 in a way, the Native American situation is international, 2183 01:39:02,734 --> 01:39:05,570 because they are sovereign nations. 2184 01:39:06,237 --> 01:39:08,656 I read In the Spirit of Crazy Horse. 2185 01:39:08,656 --> 01:39:09,991 It was very striking to me 2186 01:39:09,991 --> 01:39:11,743 that Steven would write this song, 2187 01:39:11,743 --> 01:39:13,244 "Justice for Leonard Peltier," 2188 01:39:13,244 --> 01:39:15,789 and try to give him the kind of attention 2189 01:39:15,789 --> 01:39:17,332 and regard that he did. 2190 01:39:17,332 --> 01:39:20,335 ♪ He should say What he wants to say ♪ 2191 01:39:20,877 --> 01:39:23,672 ♪ It's time we listen ♪ 2192 01:39:24,255 --> 01:39:27,217 ♪ He should pray Where he wants to pray ♪ 2193 01:39:27,217 --> 01:39:30,553 ♪ Without asking permission ♪ 2194 01:39:30,553 --> 01:39:32,263 ♪ Leonard Peltier ♪ 2195 01:39:32,263 --> 01:39:34,307 Everything that he's gone after 2196 01:39:34,307 --> 01:39:37,227 has been a really noble or meaningful thing, 2197 01:39:37,227 --> 01:39:41,272 so in the end, how could you not support that? 2198 01:39:41,272 --> 01:39:43,358 It might scare you, make you upset, 2199 01:39:43,358 --> 01:39:46,236 but you cannot say, "You shouldn't do this." 2200 01:39:46,236 --> 01:39:48,446 We dedicate this show today 2201 01:39:48,947 --> 01:39:50,782 to the students in China. 2202 01:39:51,658 --> 01:39:53,576 Solidarity with them. 2203 01:39:54,994 --> 01:39:56,663 Finally, I peaked, 2204 01:39:56,663 --> 01:39:59,082 you know, in Rome, 1989. 2205 01:39:59,457 --> 01:40:02,293 We did a concert for Tiananmen Square. 2206 01:40:02,293 --> 01:40:05,046 I couldn't see the end of the crowd, like Woodstock. 2207 01:40:05,046 --> 01:40:08,008 This is where my political trip has been leading, 2208 01:40:08,425 --> 01:40:09,592 and I realized 2209 01:40:10,135 --> 01:40:11,761 I don't wanna be a politician. 2210 01:40:12,303 --> 01:40:13,763 I said what I wanted to say, 2211 01:40:13,763 --> 01:40:15,515 learned what I wanted to learn. 2212 01:40:15,515 --> 01:40:17,600 I said, "Man, that's it. 2213 01:40:18,184 --> 01:40:20,103 I'm done. I'm done." 2214 01:40:45,170 --> 01:40:48,048 ♪ The war stopped For a moment ♪ 2215 01:40:48,048 --> 01:40:51,634 ♪ We held our breaths, My brothers and I ♪ 2216 01:40:51,634 --> 01:40:54,346 ♪ The poisoned sky Stopped crying ♪ 2217 01:40:54,346 --> 01:40:57,349 ♪ The red sun tried to shine ♪ 2218 01:40:57,349 --> 01:41:00,352 ♪ We looked down From the mountain top ♪ 2219 01:41:00,352 --> 01:41:03,855 ♪ And felt so alone ♪ 2220 01:41:03,855 --> 01:41:06,358 ♪ This once was paradise ♪ 2221 01:41:06,358 --> 01:41:10,403 ♪ This wasteland Once was home ♪ 2222 01:41:13,281 --> 01:41:16,242 ♪ Oh... ♪ 2223 01:41:21,706 --> 01:41:24,876 I had a trip planned for my next album, 2224 01:41:24,876 --> 01:41:26,461 to do research in Algeria, 2225 01:41:26,461 --> 01:41:28,380 and so I came home from that, 2226 01:41:28,380 --> 01:41:31,383 I recorded my fifth album, Born Again Savage, 2227 01:41:31,383 --> 01:41:33,718 but I wasn't gonna tour with it. 2228 01:41:34,594 --> 01:41:36,930 No record company wanted to sign me anymore. 2229 01:41:36,930 --> 01:41:38,390 I was done. 2230 01:41:51,403 --> 01:41:54,781 The weight, I think, began to put the brakes 2231 01:41:54,781 --> 01:41:57,200 on Steve's freedom 2232 01:41:57,200 --> 01:41:59,744 to let his imagination go where he wanted. 2233 01:41:59,744 --> 01:42:02,706 And the outlets seemed like they had been 2234 01:42:02,706 --> 01:42:04,582 turned off like water taps. 2235 01:42:04,582 --> 01:42:06,918 I was spiritually exhausted, 2236 01:42:06,918 --> 01:42:08,753 mentally, physically. 2237 01:42:09,254 --> 01:42:12,090 I went out to the wilderness, man, you know? 2238 01:42:12,090 --> 01:42:13,800 And walked my dog for seven years. 2239 01:42:19,639 --> 01:42:24,269 ♪ Don't ever say it was all in vain ♪ 2240 01:42:26,604 --> 01:42:28,273 ♪ Yeah, don't tell me... ♪ 2241 01:42:28,273 --> 01:42:30,650 So there I was, uh... 2242 01:42:31,109 --> 01:42:34,612 no more record deal, no more job opportunities, 2243 01:42:34,612 --> 01:42:35,989 no more offers, really, 2244 01:42:35,989 --> 01:42:38,825 and, uh, no particular ambition either. 2245 01:42:39,242 --> 01:42:42,579 ♪ Yeah, I know It still remains ♪ 2246 01:42:42,579 --> 01:42:45,457 ♪ Because I'm still the same... ♪ 2247 01:42:45,457 --> 01:42:48,376 Certainly, it mystified me, 2248 01:42:48,376 --> 01:42:51,755 why someone of his caliber 2249 01:42:52,255 --> 01:42:55,050 would have trouble getting record deals, 2250 01:42:55,050 --> 01:42:56,134 or holding onto one, 2251 01:42:56,134 --> 01:42:58,928 but knowing what I do 2252 01:42:58,928 --> 01:43:00,805 about record companies, 2253 01:43:01,556 --> 01:43:04,726 you know, it was... it wasn't hard to see why. 2254 01:43:06,519 --> 01:43:08,938 The idea of writing directly, 2255 01:43:08,938 --> 01:43:10,899 addressing directly an issue, 2256 01:43:10,899 --> 01:43:13,860 is not commercially kosher. 2257 01:43:13,860 --> 01:43:16,363 Promoters don't wanna hire you. 2258 01:43:16,363 --> 01:43:18,448 The radios will not play you. 2259 01:43:18,448 --> 01:43:19,949 When you're dealing with issues 2260 01:43:19,949 --> 01:43:23,995 that have to do with feeding yourself and your family, 2261 01:43:24,412 --> 01:43:25,538 then the question is 2262 01:43:25,538 --> 01:43:28,458 how far are you willing to go 2263 01:43:29,167 --> 01:43:30,919 to support your idea? 2264 01:43:30,919 --> 01:43:33,088 You could feed people in Africa, 2265 01:43:33,088 --> 01:43:34,339 they're okay with that, 2266 01:43:34,339 --> 01:43:36,257 but start bringing down governments, 2267 01:43:36,257 --> 01:43:38,301 they start getting a little nervous. 2268 01:43:38,301 --> 01:43:40,804 You know, like, uh... 2269 01:43:40,804 --> 01:43:43,014 "Maybe we're next," you know? 2270 01:44:08,039 --> 01:44:10,792 I met him at a time when he was 2271 01:44:10,792 --> 01:44:13,169 not having success. 2272 01:44:13,545 --> 01:44:16,089 He couldn't get good music 2273 01:44:16,089 --> 01:44:18,383 released by anybody. 2274 01:44:19,384 --> 01:44:21,261 Painful as it is, you know, 2275 01:44:21,261 --> 01:44:22,929 I think it's a quite good experience 2276 01:44:22,929 --> 01:44:24,347 for artists, you know. 2277 01:44:24,347 --> 01:44:26,474 You learn more from failures in life 2278 01:44:26,474 --> 01:44:28,393 than you do from successes, I think. 2279 01:44:28,393 --> 01:44:29,811 They're better teachers. 2280 01:44:29,811 --> 01:44:32,230 Bruce had disbanded the E Street Band, 2281 01:44:32,230 --> 01:44:34,482 and was moving on to other things. 2282 01:44:34,482 --> 01:44:37,527 During the time that Bruce had disbanded the band, 2283 01:44:37,527 --> 01:44:40,363 was also a time for reflection for Steven. 2284 01:44:40,363 --> 01:44:43,408 I thought about being a professional producer. 2285 01:44:43,408 --> 01:44:46,161 You know, I liked producing records, 2286 01:44:46,161 --> 01:44:48,496 but I only did it for my friends, really. 2287 01:44:48,496 --> 01:44:50,290 I ended up producing a couple records. 2288 01:44:50,290 --> 01:44:51,875 I did the Arc Angels, and, uh, 2289 01:44:51,875 --> 01:44:55,170 a Nigerian cat named Majek Fashek, Lone Justice, 2290 01:44:55,170 --> 01:44:56,671 and then I did a reunion record 2291 01:44:56,671 --> 01:44:59,549 with Southside Johnny & the Asbury Jukes. 2292 01:44:59,549 --> 01:45:02,302 ♪ It's been a long time ♪ 2293 01:45:02,302 --> 01:45:04,429 ♪ Since we've Laughed together ♪ 2294 01:45:04,429 --> 01:45:08,433 ♪ It's been a long time Since we cried... ♪ 2295 01:45:08,433 --> 01:45:10,560 Greetings from Asbury Park. 2296 01:45:10,560 --> 01:45:12,645 On the stage of the fabled Stone Pony, 2297 01:45:12,645 --> 01:45:15,398 the three guys who put the place on the rock map, 2298 01:45:15,398 --> 01:45:17,984 Little Steven Van Zandt, Bruce Springsteen, 2299 01:45:17,984 --> 01:45:19,611 and Southside Johnny Lyon. 2300 01:45:19,611 --> 01:45:21,279 It felt like we should 2301 01:45:21,279 --> 01:45:22,614 be working together again. 2302 01:45:22,614 --> 01:45:25,116 We laugh, have fun, tell lots of stories, 2303 01:45:25,116 --> 01:45:27,118 we had-we listened to a lot of music. 2304 01:45:27,118 --> 01:45:28,536 We sat down and wrote things, 2305 01:45:28,536 --> 01:45:31,122 it felt like it did when we first started out. 2306 01:45:31,122 --> 01:45:32,540 The forthcoming LP 2307 01:45:32,540 --> 01:45:34,959 by Southside Johnny & the Asbury Jukes, 2308 01:45:34,959 --> 01:45:36,461 entitled Better Days, 2309 01:45:36,461 --> 01:45:38,129 resurrects the horn-enriched sound 2310 01:45:38,129 --> 01:45:41,257 that was a musical trademark of the band in the late '70s. 2311 01:45:41,257 --> 01:45:43,510 The album is produced and arranged 2312 01:45:43,510 --> 01:45:46,388 by former Juke and good friend, Little Steven. 2313 01:45:46,388 --> 01:45:50,141 I just try to keep it human, and simple, and... 2314 01:45:51,184 --> 01:45:52,644 live as possible. 2315 01:45:52,644 --> 01:45:54,979 That's the way we always did it, the way I still do. 2316 01:45:54,979 --> 01:45:57,649 I haven't really changed since I started, really. 2317 01:45:57,649 --> 01:45:59,359 Do the same thing long enough, 2318 01:45:59,359 --> 01:46:02,862 eventually it becomes fashionable. 2319 01:46:02,862 --> 01:46:05,740 I don't remember it was any much that different, 2320 01:46:05,740 --> 01:46:08,326 but when we got into the studio for Better Days, 2321 01:46:08,326 --> 01:46:10,328 we both were relaxed enough 2322 01:46:10,328 --> 01:46:12,872 that we could let things happen, it was great. 2323 01:46:13,873 --> 01:46:16,459 You go back to Asbury, there's Southside, 2324 01:46:16,459 --> 01:46:18,336 there's Steve, there's me. 2325 01:46:18,336 --> 01:46:19,546 Just those three guys. 2326 01:46:19,546 --> 01:46:21,006 That's not gonna happen again. 2327 01:46:21,006 --> 01:46:23,341 Those are the people you were there with. 2328 01:46:23,341 --> 01:46:25,343 Those times are gone, 2329 01:46:25,760 --> 01:46:28,263 but those feelings, the feeling remains. 2330 01:46:28,263 --> 01:46:30,181 The soul, 2331 01:46:30,181 --> 01:46:33,810 and the love, and the feelings, 2332 01:46:34,394 --> 01:46:36,855 we still keep a great faith with. 2333 01:46:37,230 --> 01:46:39,065 ♪ We lived in a time ♪ 2334 01:46:39,065 --> 01:46:41,234 ♪ In a world of our own ♪ 2335 01:46:41,776 --> 01:46:45,739 ♪ Making up the rules As we went along ♪ 2336 01:46:45,739 --> 01:46:47,782 ♪ Just one coat between us ♪ 2337 01:46:47,782 --> 01:46:50,368 ♪ And we never felt cold ♪ 2338 01:46:50,368 --> 01:46:54,289 ♪ We were never Gonna get old ♪ 2339 01:46:54,873 --> 01:46:56,750 ♪ It's been a long time ♪ 2340 01:46:56,750 --> 01:46:59,210 ♪ Since we laughed together ♪ 2341 01:46:59,627 --> 01:47:03,673 ♪ It's been a long time Since we cried... ♪ 2342 01:47:03,673 --> 01:47:06,217 Luckily, Lance Freed, 2343 01:47:06,217 --> 01:47:08,261 a music publisher who happened to be 2344 01:47:08,261 --> 01:47:11,222 the son of the legendary DJ Alan Freed, 2345 01:47:11,222 --> 01:47:12,932 heard the Southside Johnny album. 2346 01:47:12,932 --> 01:47:15,852 Said, "I haven't heard writing like this in a long time," 2347 01:47:15,852 --> 01:47:18,521 and offered me a publishing deal, 2348 01:47:18,521 --> 01:47:20,315 which saved my life. 2349 01:47:20,732 --> 01:47:24,235 There were decades of success 2350 01:47:24,235 --> 01:47:25,695 in the past. 2351 01:47:25,695 --> 01:47:29,074 I didn't feel that his-his writing 2352 01:47:29,074 --> 01:47:30,950 had-had diminished at all. 2353 01:47:30,950 --> 01:47:34,412 I felt like it was every bit as good as it had ever been. 2354 01:47:34,412 --> 01:47:38,625 And eventually, you know, things come around. 2355 01:47:39,250 --> 01:47:40,752 At the time it was a lot of money, 2356 01:47:40,752 --> 01:47:42,671 and paid my bills for years. 2357 01:47:42,671 --> 01:47:44,506 Lance, if you're out there, 2358 01:47:44,506 --> 01:47:45,924 I love you, baby. 2359 01:47:55,225 --> 01:47:58,436 My relationship with Steven started with Home Alone 2. 2360 01:47:58,436 --> 01:48:00,730 We were looking for a song 2361 01:48:00,730 --> 01:48:03,233 that would cover a montage. 2362 01:48:03,233 --> 01:48:04,901 I said, "Let's think about this. 2363 01:48:04,901 --> 01:48:07,737 What you need to do is call Stevie Van Zandt." 2364 01:48:07,737 --> 01:48:09,614 ♪ The cold wind's blowing ♪ 2365 01:48:09,614 --> 01:48:11,616 ♪ And the streets Are getting dark ♪ 2366 01:48:11,616 --> 01:48:13,785 ♪ I'm writing you a letter ♪ 2367 01:48:13,785 --> 01:48:15,787 ♪ And I don't know Where to start ♪ 2368 01:48:15,787 --> 01:48:17,497 ♪ The bells will be ringing ♪ 2369 01:48:17,497 --> 01:48:19,666 ♪ Saint John, the Divine ♪ 2370 01:48:19,666 --> 01:48:21,376 ♪ I get a little lonely ♪ 2371 01:48:21,376 --> 01:48:23,378 ♪ Every year Around this time... ♪ 2372 01:48:23,378 --> 01:48:26,589 I said, "I don't know what the song exactly is, 2373 01:48:26,589 --> 01:48:28,883 but it has to feel like some of the stuff 2374 01:48:28,883 --> 01:48:32,303 you had just done on the latest Southside album," 2375 01:48:32,303 --> 01:48:33,805 which was Better Days. 2376 01:48:33,805 --> 01:48:36,266 Steve says, "I'm gonna get the E Street Band 2377 01:48:36,266 --> 01:48:38,226 to come in to be backing musicians." 2378 01:48:38,226 --> 01:48:40,520 Wow! Okay, all right. 2379 01:48:40,520 --> 01:48:43,064 I'm coming to that recording session. 2380 01:48:43,064 --> 01:48:46,693 And I thought, "My world has finally connected 2381 01:48:46,693 --> 01:48:48,862 with my dream world." 2382 01:48:48,862 --> 01:48:50,822 I think Steven, with that particular song, 2383 01:48:50,822 --> 01:48:53,783 wrote one of the great Christmas songs. 2384 01:48:53,783 --> 01:48:57,203 In my mind, I felt that if there was ever a situation 2385 01:48:57,203 --> 01:48:59,581 where I needed a song in a film, 2386 01:48:59,581 --> 01:49:00,915 I would call Steven. 2387 01:49:00,915 --> 01:49:05,920 ♪ This is the time Of your life ♪ 2388 01:49:06,504 --> 01:49:08,965 ♪ Whatcha gonna do with it ♪ 2389 01:49:09,966 --> 01:49:12,844 ♪ Don't fool with it... ♪ 2390 01:49:12,844 --> 01:49:14,763 I needed a song for the end credits 2391 01:49:14,763 --> 01:49:17,557 that celebrated the way I was feeling 2392 01:49:17,557 --> 01:49:19,851 about being a young father for the first time, 2393 01:49:19,851 --> 01:49:22,854 and he comes back with "Time of Your Life." 2394 01:49:23,521 --> 01:49:26,024 ♪ Don't think About the future ♪ 2395 01:49:26,024 --> 01:49:29,861 ♪ Don't think About the past ♪ 2396 01:49:29,861 --> 01:49:32,614 ♪ There's just this moment ♪ 2397 01:49:32,614 --> 01:49:36,451 ♪ You better Make it last... ♪ 2398 01:49:36,451 --> 01:49:39,204 It's an intensely personal song. 2399 01:49:39,204 --> 01:49:40,538 I don't really... 2400 01:49:40,538 --> 01:49:43,041 think he's written a song quite like it since. 2401 01:49:43,041 --> 01:49:45,710 Well, most people who get into a band, 2402 01:49:45,710 --> 01:49:48,421 you don't do it to-to win accolades. 2403 01:49:48,421 --> 01:49:49,964 You do it because you love music, 2404 01:49:49,964 --> 01:49:51,883 you wanna be on stage and share it. 2405 01:49:51,883 --> 01:49:53,885 Gold records, winning awards, 2406 01:49:53,885 --> 01:49:56,971 those things definitely are meaningful, 2407 01:49:56,971 --> 01:49:59,808 but they're definitely not the reason you do it. 2408 01:49:59,808 --> 01:50:02,102 ♪ Whatcha gonna do with it ♪ 2409 01:50:08,733 --> 01:50:10,819 He was trying to get the Rascals 2410 01:50:10,819 --> 01:50:12,070 up and running again, 2411 01:50:12,070 --> 01:50:14,614 and they had been feuding for decades, 2412 01:50:14,614 --> 01:50:17,242 and they were a personal favorite of Stevie's. 2413 01:50:17,242 --> 01:50:19,953 And to induct them into the Hall of Fame, 2414 01:50:19,953 --> 01:50:22,747 he came out wearing those outfits they used to wear 2415 01:50:22,747 --> 01:50:26,334 in the very beginning, like little schoolboy outfits. 2416 01:50:26,710 --> 01:50:28,712 Some people may not realize it, 2417 01:50:28,712 --> 01:50:32,590 but the Rascals were the first rock band in the world. 2418 01:50:34,926 --> 01:50:39,055 In the center of the universe, New Jersey, 2419 01:50:39,055 --> 01:50:41,433 the Rascals were the first band. 2420 01:50:41,891 --> 01:50:44,561 And who knew that sitting in New Jersey, 2421 01:50:44,561 --> 01:50:47,772 watching on TV, was this guy David Chase, 2422 01:50:48,481 --> 01:50:52,485 saying, "You know, that guy 2423 01:50:53,069 --> 01:50:55,655 could be good for my new TV show." 2424 01:50:56,072 --> 01:50:59,451 You know, their stage garb was a little, uh, bizarre. 2425 01:50:59,451 --> 01:51:01,536 Uh, what I'm trying to say 2426 01:51:01,536 --> 01:51:03,872 is people think they dress funny. 2427 01:51:04,789 --> 01:51:06,750 Now, this is a subject I know something about. 2428 01:51:09,961 --> 01:51:12,297 And I just, you know, for the record tonight, 2429 01:51:12,297 --> 01:51:15,967 I wanna say that there was absolutely nothing 2430 01:51:16,259 --> 01:51:19,262 unusual about the way the Rascals dressed. 2431 01:51:22,140 --> 01:51:23,308 I... 2432 01:51:29,022 --> 01:51:30,732 Nothing strange about that. 2433 01:51:31,149 --> 01:51:33,276 I used to buy Springsteen albums, 2434 01:51:33,276 --> 01:51:34,527 back to the days of vinyl. 2435 01:51:34,527 --> 01:51:36,363 I used to read the album over and over, 2436 01:51:36,363 --> 01:51:37,405 stare at it. 2437 01:51:37,405 --> 01:51:38,823 And I saw this guy, 2438 01:51:38,823 --> 01:51:40,158 every album, there he was. 2439 01:51:40,158 --> 01:51:42,660 And he looked Italian to me. I'm Italian. 2440 01:51:42,660 --> 01:51:46,998 So you know, it-it pricked my attention. 2441 01:51:47,332 --> 01:51:48,667 And he was very funny, 2442 01:51:48,667 --> 01:51:51,127 glued me to the TV, just really charismatic, 2443 01:51:51,127 --> 01:51:53,630 and I said, "That guy's gotta be in the show." 2444 01:51:53,630 --> 01:51:55,674 We were having dinner one night, 2445 01:51:55,674 --> 01:51:58,677 he goes, "You know, this guy, David Chase, 2446 01:51:58,677 --> 01:52:00,136 he saw me speak 2447 01:52:00,136 --> 01:52:02,847 at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction dinner, 2448 01:52:02,847 --> 01:52:06,476 and he wants me to try a part for HBO." 2449 01:52:06,976 --> 01:52:09,646 And I said, "Steven, you can't fucking do that. 2450 01:52:10,105 --> 01:52:12,315 You can't be in television. 2451 01:52:12,315 --> 01:52:15,151 I mean, think of Donny & Marie. 2452 01:52:15,151 --> 01:52:17,570 Are you the Partridge Family? No. 2453 01:52:17,570 --> 01:52:19,030 You're Stevie Van Zandt, 2454 01:52:19,030 --> 01:52:21,658 you're a fucking rock and roll idol. 2455 01:52:21,658 --> 01:52:23,034 You can't do this. 2456 01:52:23,034 --> 01:52:25,453 You're gonna ruin everything." 2457 01:52:25,453 --> 01:52:28,707 And he goes, "Well, I'm also broke." 2458 01:52:52,063 --> 01:52:55,734 Steven goes, "I did this pilot for this TV show, 2459 01:52:55,734 --> 01:52:58,987 about a Mob family in New Jersey, 2460 01:52:58,987 --> 01:53:00,613 I don't know if it's the right thing." 2461 01:53:00,613 --> 01:53:02,157 I said, "What do you mean?" 2462 01:53:02,157 --> 01:53:04,826 He goes, "Rock 'n' rollers shouldn't be on TV." 2463 01:53:04,826 --> 01:53:08,830 I said, "Well, look, Steven, TV has no memory." 2464 01:53:09,205 --> 01:53:11,750 He goes, "What do you mean, has no memory?" 2465 01:53:11,750 --> 01:53:14,085 I said, "Do you know 2466 01:53:14,085 --> 01:53:18,256 that Henry Fonda had a TV series?" 2467 01:53:20,592 --> 01:53:22,844 He goes, "He did?" 2468 01:53:23,303 --> 01:53:24,387 I said, "Yeah. 2469 01:53:24,387 --> 01:53:26,765 Do you know Jimmy Stewart had a TV series?" 2470 01:53:29,392 --> 01:53:31,269 He goes, "He did?" 2471 01:53:31,269 --> 01:53:32,937 I says, "Yeah." 2472 01:53:32,937 --> 01:53:35,982 He said, "I don't remember." I said, "That's my point. 2473 01:53:35,982 --> 01:53:39,110 If the thing is great, great. 2474 01:53:39,110 --> 01:53:41,905 If the thing is bad, they'll forget about it." 2475 01:53:41,905 --> 01:53:43,531 If he's right, he's right. 2476 01:53:44,074 --> 01:53:45,784 What the fuck are you doing? 2477 01:53:45,784 --> 01:53:47,535 Sil, take it easy. 2478 01:53:47,535 --> 01:53:48,995 I'm losing my balls over here! 2479 01:53:48,995 --> 01:53:50,789 This fucking moron is playing Hazel? 2480 01:53:50,789 --> 01:53:52,624 Get the fuck outta here! 2481 01:53:52,624 --> 01:53:54,292 I was trying to sweep the cheese-- 2482 01:53:54,292 --> 01:53:56,127 Why? Why now? 2483 01:53:56,127 --> 01:53:57,545 Leave it there. 2484 01:53:57,545 --> 01:53:59,547 - I don't know, I was just-- - What? 2485 01:54:00,465 --> 01:54:02,967 Where do you get these fucking idiots? Where? 2486 01:54:02,967 --> 01:54:05,720 He's sweeping the cheese while I'm trying to get... 2487 01:54:05,720 --> 01:54:07,597 Leave the fucking cheese there! 2488 01:54:07,597 --> 01:54:09,140 I love cheese on my feet. 2489 01:54:09,140 --> 01:54:11,976 I stick mother fucking provolone in my socks at night 2490 01:54:11,976 --> 01:54:14,145 so they smell like your sister's crotch. 2491 01:54:14,145 --> 01:54:17,190 All right? So leave the cock sucking cheese 2492 01:54:17,190 --> 01:54:18,858 where it is! 2493 01:54:19,734 --> 01:54:21,653 What stunned people 2494 01:54:21,653 --> 01:54:23,613 was the breadth and range 2495 01:54:23,613 --> 01:54:26,074 and authenticity of this cast, 2496 01:54:26,074 --> 01:54:29,202 the surprise of this cast. 2497 01:54:29,202 --> 01:54:33,373 And Steve Van Zandt was the personification 2498 01:54:33,373 --> 01:54:35,208 of that surprise, 2499 01:54:35,208 --> 01:54:37,335 because he wasn't a professional actor. 2500 01:54:37,335 --> 01:54:42,507 And you could see that he was made to do this. 2501 01:54:42,507 --> 01:54:44,259 He was built to do this. 2502 01:54:47,095 --> 01:54:48,722 He said he didn't wanna take 2503 01:54:48,722 --> 01:54:50,098 a job from an actor. 2504 01:54:50,098 --> 01:54:52,225 We were auditioning all kinds of actors. 2505 01:54:52,684 --> 01:54:56,521 So I said, "Well, we'll create a character for you," 2506 01:54:56,521 --> 01:54:57,689 which we did. 2507 01:54:57,689 --> 01:54:59,149 And it was based on a character 2508 01:54:59,149 --> 01:55:01,651 that he had invented, named Silvio Dante. 2509 01:55:01,651 --> 01:55:03,028 His club was gonna be traditional, 2510 01:55:03,028 --> 01:55:04,821 with maybe '40s music, 2511 01:55:04,821 --> 01:55:07,073 and I said, "That'd be great for the show." 2512 01:55:07,073 --> 01:55:09,200 Well, what it wound up as was a strip club. 2513 01:55:09,200 --> 01:55:11,536 I wrote a whole biography about him. 2514 01:55:11,536 --> 01:55:14,456 He grew up with Tony Soprano, he was his best friend, 2515 01:55:14,456 --> 01:55:17,584 and I kind of used my relationship with Bruce. 2516 01:55:30,305 --> 01:55:32,307 We were driving on the North End, 2517 01:55:32,307 --> 01:55:35,018 which is kind of like Mulberry Street, New York. 2518 01:55:35,018 --> 01:55:38,188 It's a real old school Italian district. 2519 01:55:38,188 --> 01:55:39,939 "Silvio's here on the North End!" 2520 01:55:39,939 --> 01:55:41,900 Owners of the restaurant come out, 2521 01:55:41,900 --> 01:55:43,985 they're bringing him out meatballs. 2522 01:55:43,985 --> 01:55:47,072 We gotta keep him in the van because it's Beatlemania. 2523 01:55:48,615 --> 01:55:51,659 From the Sopranos soundtrack, our thanks to Little Steven. 2524 01:55:51,659 --> 01:55:53,578 ♪ Even if it's all over ♪ 2525 01:55:53,578 --> 01:55:56,915 ♪ Don't ever say it was All in vain... ♪ 2526 01:55:56,915 --> 01:55:58,416 What was interesting 2527 01:55:58,416 --> 01:56:01,544 in the music that David Chase chose for the show 2528 01:56:01,544 --> 01:56:03,963 was that it was exposing Little Steven songs, 2529 01:56:03,963 --> 01:56:06,049 and even unreleased Little Steven songs, 2530 01:56:06,049 --> 01:56:07,926 to a brand new audience. 2531 01:56:07,926 --> 01:56:09,761 I loved picking out the music, 2532 01:56:09,761 --> 01:56:11,221 and thinking about songs, 2533 01:56:11,221 --> 01:56:14,140 and some of them I'd had in my head for 30 years. 2534 01:56:14,140 --> 01:56:16,101 It was my favorite part of the show. 2535 01:56:16,101 --> 01:56:20,271 But it was never me trying to, like, introduce, um... 2536 01:56:20,772 --> 01:56:22,190 the world to any music, 2537 01:56:22,190 --> 01:56:25,485 it was just what was right for that dramatic piece. 2538 01:56:25,485 --> 01:56:27,946 When I came in to open up one morning, 2539 01:56:27,946 --> 01:56:30,365 there you were, your head half in the toilet. 2540 01:56:30,365 --> 01:56:33,743 Your hair was in the toilet water. Disgusting. 2541 01:56:33,743 --> 01:56:35,036 I told you I had the flu. 2542 01:56:35,036 --> 01:56:36,955 I said my piece, Chrissy. 2543 01:56:36,955 --> 01:56:38,623 He was almost unrecognizable. 2544 01:56:38,623 --> 01:56:40,083 If you see him in the band, 2545 01:56:40,083 --> 01:56:42,127 then when you see him in The Sopranos. 2546 01:56:42,127 --> 01:56:44,921 Uh, I was just deathly afraid of people saying "Hey, 2547 01:56:44,921 --> 01:56:47,215 I just saw you play in Cleveland. 2548 01:56:47,215 --> 01:56:49,884 What are you doing trying to be a mobster," you know? 2549 01:56:49,884 --> 01:56:51,302 I was deathly afraid of that. 2550 01:56:51,302 --> 01:56:53,304 That's why I gained, I went in the gym, 2551 01:56:53,304 --> 01:56:56,725 I gained, like, 30, 40, 50 pounds right away. 2552 01:56:56,725 --> 01:56:58,810 Uh, and muscle, you know, 2553 01:56:58,810 --> 01:57:01,021 I really, you know, tried to, bulked up, 2554 01:57:01,021 --> 01:57:04,315 and I wanted to be as different as I could be, 2555 01:57:04,315 --> 01:57:06,526 thinking I'm never going back to music. 2556 01:57:06,526 --> 01:57:07,944 You know... 2557 01:57:07,944 --> 01:57:09,487 I was in one trailer, 2558 01:57:09,487 --> 01:57:11,489 and Stevie was right next to me, 2559 01:57:11,489 --> 01:57:14,367 and I used to play a lot of Bruce and Southside. 2560 01:57:14,367 --> 01:57:16,703 Steven comes by, I had the door open, 2561 01:57:16,703 --> 01:57:19,789 and he says, "I figured you'd be playing Sinatra," 2562 01:57:20,165 --> 01:57:23,001 and I says, "No, man, this is Southside." 2563 01:57:23,001 --> 01:57:24,419 He said, "I know who it is." 2564 01:57:24,419 --> 01:57:26,171 "You know I wrote all those songs?" 2565 01:57:26,171 --> 01:57:27,839 I says, "I didn't know that." 2566 01:57:27,839 --> 01:57:29,841 and I took the CD out, said Van Zandt, 2567 01:57:29,841 --> 01:57:31,301 I says, "I didn't know that." 2568 01:57:31,301 --> 01:57:34,512 He's clearly fabricating a persona, 2569 01:57:34,512 --> 01:57:38,433 but you smell enough of Steven in the character, 2570 01:57:38,433 --> 01:57:41,561 that-that it's totally believable. 2571 01:57:42,937 --> 01:57:46,316 Without Frank, none of youse would be in this room tonight. 2572 01:57:46,316 --> 01:57:48,860 I was talking to the guitar tech, 2573 01:57:48,860 --> 01:57:50,570 and he said, "Every once in a while, 2574 01:57:50,570 --> 01:57:52,614 he'd be waiting too long for his guitar, 2575 01:57:52,614 --> 01:57:55,158 he'd turn around and turn into Silvio." 2576 01:57:55,158 --> 01:57:56,868 "What the fuck, give me my... 2577 01:57:56,868 --> 01:58:00,121 My fucking guitar." 2578 01:58:01,873 --> 01:58:03,750 It was probably always in there, 2579 01:58:04,250 --> 01:58:06,836 but now it became unleashed. 2580 01:58:06,836 --> 01:58:07,879 Hey, Sil. 2581 01:58:07,879 --> 01:58:09,547 - What? -"What?" 2582 01:58:09,547 --> 01:58:12,384 I've been gone a long time. Let me hear it. 2583 01:58:14,719 --> 01:58:17,055 Just when they thought I was out, 2584 01:58:17,055 --> 01:58:19,099 they pull me back in. 2585 01:58:20,350 --> 01:58:22,477 All right, get the fuck out of here. 2586 01:58:22,769 --> 01:58:25,397 I was not fooling around. I came out of that trailer 2587 01:58:25,397 --> 01:58:28,233 as Silvio Dante, and I was really him. 2588 01:58:28,233 --> 01:58:31,319 You know, I didn't... I didn't take that lightly. 2589 01:58:31,319 --> 01:58:33,738 When you're connected with Gandolfini, 2590 01:58:33,738 --> 01:58:35,073 you just gotta get better, 2591 01:58:35,073 --> 01:58:38,118 and Steven and Jimmy got along so good. 2592 01:58:38,118 --> 01:58:39,911 He learned a lot from Jimmy. 2593 01:58:39,911 --> 01:58:41,830 He'd always say, "Look in the mirror. 2594 01:58:41,830 --> 01:58:43,373 Look at this face, you know? 2595 01:58:43,373 --> 01:58:46,084 You believe they cast me as the lead in this show?" 2596 01:58:46,084 --> 01:58:48,128 He meant it, you know? 2597 01:58:48,128 --> 01:58:50,547 Just being in a scene with him, 2598 01:58:50,547 --> 01:58:52,215 you walked away a better actor. 2599 01:58:52,215 --> 01:58:53,758 You just couldn't help it. 2600 01:58:53,758 --> 01:58:54,926 He was that good. 2601 01:58:54,926 --> 01:58:56,344 What the fuck do you know 2602 01:58:56,344 --> 01:58:57,637 what goes on in my head? 2603 01:58:57,637 --> 01:58:59,973 I've known you since you were a kid, Ton'. 2604 01:59:00,390 --> 01:59:04,310 Frankly... you've got a problem with authority. 2605 01:59:05,562 --> 01:59:07,355 I knew exactly those dynamics. 2606 01:59:07,355 --> 01:59:09,607 I know what it's like to be the only guy 2607 01:59:09,607 --> 01:59:10,900 bringing the bad news. 2608 01:59:10,900 --> 01:59:12,068 That's the job. 2609 01:59:12,068 --> 01:59:13,903 You wanna be somebody's best friend? 2610 01:59:13,903 --> 01:59:15,071 Be a real friend? 2611 01:59:15,071 --> 01:59:17,240 You wanna be a consigliere? 2612 01:59:17,240 --> 01:59:18,825 You've gotta take that heat. 2613 01:59:18,825 --> 01:59:20,452 And you gotta stand up to it, 2614 01:59:20,452 --> 01:59:22,287 because that's the job, man. 2615 01:59:22,287 --> 01:59:24,205 'Cause everybody else is too afraid to do it. 2616 01:59:24,205 --> 01:59:26,791 You know, it might cost you your friendship, 2617 01:59:26,791 --> 01:59:30,170 or in this case, in Sopranos, it might cost your life, 2618 01:59:30,170 --> 01:59:32,130 you know, but you gotta do it. 2619 01:59:32,130 --> 01:59:33,423 That's the gig. 2620 01:59:33,423 --> 01:59:36,134 So I was comfortable with those dynamics, 2621 01:59:36,134 --> 01:59:38,011 and, uh, I think it helped me 2622 01:59:38,011 --> 01:59:39,637 as a first-time actor. 2623 01:59:39,637 --> 01:59:41,890 All his experience through his career, 2624 01:59:41,890 --> 01:59:43,308 with Bruce, and other ways, 2625 01:59:43,308 --> 01:59:45,977 he gave me tips, um, 2626 01:59:45,977 --> 01:59:47,479 which were really valuable. 2627 01:59:47,479 --> 01:59:50,440 He took on more thematic responsibility too 2628 01:59:50,440 --> 01:59:52,150 as he became a consigliere. 2629 01:59:52,150 --> 01:59:54,235 That's what he's like as a person. 2630 01:59:54,778 --> 01:59:56,404 He was always that way with me. 2631 01:59:56,404 --> 01:59:58,656 "Don't do this, don't do this," you know? 2632 01:59:58,656 --> 02:00:00,075 That was the big time. 2633 02:00:00,075 --> 02:00:02,285 He'd been in the big time for a long time. 2634 02:00:02,285 --> 02:00:05,330 I'm gonna tell you something I never told anybody. 2635 02:00:06,206 --> 02:00:07,707 Back when Jackie was at the end, 2636 02:00:07,707 --> 02:00:09,167 they floated the idea 2637 02:00:09,167 --> 02:00:10,960 of me stepping up to the big seat. 2638 02:00:11,670 --> 02:00:13,338 Not Tony, me. 2639 02:00:13,338 --> 02:00:14,881 - Really? - Yeah. 2640 02:00:14,881 --> 02:00:17,258 But I thought, "It's not for me." 2641 02:00:17,258 --> 02:00:19,260 Still, you wouldn't sneeze at it. 2642 02:00:19,260 --> 02:00:22,013 I never saw myself as that kind of guy. 2643 02:00:22,013 --> 02:00:23,848 I'm more behind the scenes. 2644 02:00:23,848 --> 02:00:27,018 Advice... strategy. 2645 02:00:28,728 --> 02:00:30,772 And here you are, Sil. 2646 02:00:31,356 --> 02:00:33,400 The times make the man, honey, 2647 02:00:33,400 --> 02:00:35,652 not the other way around. 2648 02:00:39,656 --> 02:00:41,366 Come on, Stevie! 2649 02:00:41,825 --> 02:00:43,243 Once more. 2650 02:00:44,536 --> 02:00:46,329 One, two! 2651 02:00:53,128 --> 02:00:57,757 ♪ Once I spent my time Playing tough-guy scenes ♪ 2652 02:00:57,757 --> 02:00:59,342 ♪ Yeah ♪ 2653 02:00:59,342 --> 02:01:03,805 ♪ I was living in a world Of childish dreams... ♪ 2654 02:01:04,764 --> 02:01:06,141 Here's two friends 2655 02:01:06,558 --> 02:01:09,519 that I'm so happy they're getting back together again, 2656 02:01:09,519 --> 02:01:11,563 and that's how I felt about that. 2657 02:01:11,563 --> 02:01:14,649 Those guys have a connection, and it's fucking awesome. 2658 02:01:14,649 --> 02:01:16,943 They're laughing, they're like two kids. 2659 02:01:16,943 --> 02:01:18,361 That's the relationship. 2660 02:01:18,361 --> 02:01:20,572 ♪ I believe in the end ♪ 2661 02:01:20,947 --> 02:01:24,242 ♪ Two hearts Are better than one ♪ 2662 02:01:24,659 --> 02:01:27,787 ♪ Two hearts Girl, get the job done ♪ 2663 02:01:27,787 --> 02:01:31,541 ♪ Two hearts Are better than one... ♪ 2664 02:01:31,541 --> 02:01:33,168 Being in a band is like 2665 02:01:33,168 --> 02:01:36,296 being in the priesthood or the Mob. 2666 02:01:36,296 --> 02:01:38,965 These are organizations you can't leave. 2667 02:01:39,424 --> 02:01:40,759 Unless you're dead. 2668 02:01:40,759 --> 02:01:43,762 The whole mythology of the band of brothers. 2669 02:01:45,930 --> 02:01:47,891 ♪ My special one ♪ 2670 02:01:47,891 --> 02:01:51,019 ♪ Two hearts Are better than one ♪ 2671 02:01:51,436 --> 02:01:54,314 ♪ Two hearts Girl, get the job done ♪ 2672 02:01:54,773 --> 02:01:57,400 ♪ Two hearts Are better than one ♪ 2673 02:01:57,400 --> 02:01:58,860 - Steve! - Yeah, Boss? 2674 02:01:58,860 --> 02:02:01,363 How the hell is this guy gonna be doing 2675 02:02:01,363 --> 02:02:02,822 a rock show the night before, 2676 02:02:02,822 --> 02:02:05,700 and had a 6:00 a.m. call the next day in New York? 2677 02:02:05,700 --> 02:02:08,078 We used to wait and say, "Is he gonna make it?" 2678 02:02:08,078 --> 02:02:09,746 Boom, he shows up, comes out 2679 02:02:09,746 --> 02:02:10,789 looking like Silvio, 2680 02:02:10,789 --> 02:02:12,624 - and we go to work. - Let's go act. 2681 02:02:12,624 --> 02:02:15,168 Van Zandt is creatively restless, 2682 02:02:15,168 --> 02:02:17,462 says his wife, Maureen, who also plays 2683 02:02:17,462 --> 02:02:19,798 his TV wife in The Sopranos. 2684 02:02:19,798 --> 02:02:22,258 You know, that's what's interesting about him, 2685 02:02:22,258 --> 02:02:25,261 that he's a... he's a real Renaissance man. 2686 02:02:25,261 --> 02:02:27,430 I know that sounds very cliche, but he is. 2687 02:02:32,102 --> 02:02:33,520 People ask me, uh, 2688 02:02:33,520 --> 02:02:35,605 "What have you been doing these last 20 years?" 2689 02:02:35,605 --> 02:02:39,776 And I say to them, "I've been putting all of my energy 2690 02:02:39,776 --> 02:02:42,362 into preserving this thing we call rock and roll." 2691 02:02:42,362 --> 02:02:44,614 And they said it wouldn't last. 2692 02:02:44,614 --> 02:02:46,366 The Underground Garage this week 2693 02:02:46,366 --> 02:02:47,826 begins its fifth year. 2694 02:02:47,826 --> 02:02:50,829 It started with his syndicated radio show 2695 02:02:50,829 --> 02:02:53,331 Little Steven's Underground Garage, 2696 02:02:53,331 --> 02:02:55,375 now heard on 200 stations. 2697 02:02:55,375 --> 02:02:58,503 He said, "I started going, city by city, 2698 02:02:58,503 --> 02:03:00,463 I would get a dinner 2699 02:03:00,463 --> 02:03:02,465 with the head of the radio station, 2700 02:03:02,465 --> 02:03:05,677 and then we'd talk Sopranos for an hour," 2701 02:03:05,677 --> 02:03:07,554 he'd say "What's your slowest night?" 2702 02:03:07,554 --> 02:03:11,975 He wheeled and dealed to get this golden music 2703 02:03:11,975 --> 02:03:13,601 into the people's ears. 2704 02:03:13,977 --> 02:03:15,687 I remember being on the West Coast 2705 02:03:15,687 --> 02:03:17,564 listening to Underground Garage, 2706 02:03:17,564 --> 02:03:20,442 like, "These are the coolest bands I've ever heard." 2707 02:03:20,442 --> 02:03:23,611 My only desire was to be on that station as a band. 2708 02:03:24,612 --> 02:03:27,407 Your radio show, Little Steven's Underground Garage-- 2709 02:03:27,407 --> 02:03:30,035 Yes, we are the only radio show with dancers. 2710 02:03:30,035 --> 02:03:31,828 Yeah, I noticed. 2711 02:03:32,829 --> 02:03:35,123 You know, it goes from punk rock, to surf, 2712 02:03:35,123 --> 02:03:37,125 to doo-wop, to psychedelic, 2713 02:03:37,125 --> 02:03:39,961 to, you know, modern garage stuff to old garage stuff, 2714 02:03:39,961 --> 02:03:43,340 and glam, and a bunch more I'm forgetting. 2715 02:03:43,340 --> 02:03:44,674 There's even reggae in there. 2716 02:03:44,674 --> 02:03:47,427 You think of all those bands that got played, 2717 02:03:47,427 --> 02:03:48,636 he was the first guy 2718 02:03:48,636 --> 02:03:50,847 to turn anybody on to the White Stripes. 2719 02:03:50,847 --> 02:03:52,140 I mean, that was him. 2720 02:03:52,515 --> 02:03:55,226 And it just steamrolled into this monster, 2721 02:03:55,518 --> 02:03:57,645 you know, groundbreaking thing. 2722 02:04:01,066 --> 02:04:03,651 Underground Garage gave Steven his freedom 2723 02:04:03,651 --> 02:04:05,403 to play whatever he wanted. 2724 02:04:05,403 --> 02:04:07,364 I can't say the name of the track, 2725 02:04:07,364 --> 02:04:09,657 because it's got a horrible word in it. 2726 02:04:09,657 --> 02:04:12,243 It's my station, we can do whatever the fuck we want. 2727 02:04:12,243 --> 02:04:13,536 Well, there you go. 2728 02:04:13,536 --> 02:04:15,246 I ask people, "How do you know my music?" 2729 02:04:15,246 --> 02:04:18,208 They say Underground Garage. I get that all the time. 2730 02:04:18,208 --> 02:04:20,251 It wasn't just the past. 2731 02:04:20,251 --> 02:04:22,921 It was like, "Here's the past, 2732 02:04:22,921 --> 02:04:24,547 and here's the future." 2733 02:04:24,547 --> 02:04:26,925 ♪ When you're walking in LA ♪ 2734 02:04:26,925 --> 02:04:29,010 ♪ Everybody knows That you're down... ♪ 2735 02:04:29,010 --> 02:04:31,429 He thought there was country music 2736 02:04:31,429 --> 02:04:32,555 being unrepresented, 2737 02:04:32,555 --> 02:04:33,932 and said "I got a second idea, 2738 02:04:33,932 --> 02:04:36,017 I wanna do this thing called Outlaw Country. 2739 02:04:36,017 --> 02:04:39,187 So Outlaw Country comes. Guy's got another channel. 2740 02:04:39,187 --> 02:04:40,939 You wanna make those connections. 2741 02:04:40,939 --> 02:04:42,565 You wanna connect dots, 2742 02:04:42,565 --> 02:04:43,858 like you do in music, 2743 02:04:43,858 --> 02:04:46,277 Like, how is Robert Johnson the same as 2744 02:04:46,778 --> 02:04:48,446 the White Stripes, or whoever? 2745 02:04:48,446 --> 02:04:49,823 I think he realizes that if 2746 02:04:49,823 --> 02:04:51,908 somebody doesn't keep this going, 2747 02:04:51,908 --> 02:04:53,034 it may die. 2748 02:04:53,034 --> 02:04:56,538 ♪ Who will save Rock and roll... ♪ 2749 02:04:56,538 --> 02:04:58,957 From his New York office, Van Zandt 2750 02:04:58,957 --> 02:05:01,626 also books underground garage concerts. 2751 02:05:01,626 --> 02:05:03,712 He was trying to save CBGB's. 2752 02:05:03,712 --> 02:05:05,463 He reunited some great bands 2753 02:05:05,463 --> 02:05:07,841 for the Garage Rock Festival. 2754 02:05:09,426 --> 02:05:10,802 And for all these events, 2755 02:05:10,802 --> 02:05:13,138 he'd bring friends from E Street and Sopranos. 2756 02:05:13,138 --> 02:05:15,265 I hope youse having a great time 2757 02:05:15,265 --> 02:05:17,684 listening to all this garage trash today. 2758 02:05:18,268 --> 02:05:19,602 I know I'm trying. 2759 02:05:19,602 --> 02:05:23,231 Steven has this... sheet of paper 2760 02:05:23,231 --> 02:05:25,150 with all of the things 2761 02:05:25,150 --> 02:05:26,776 that he wants to do. 2762 02:05:26,776 --> 02:05:29,654 I'm pretty sure he's done them all. 2763 02:05:29,654 --> 02:05:31,072 Like, it's just mind-blowing, 2764 02:05:31,072 --> 02:05:34,284 but I think he has kind of checked a box 2765 02:05:34,284 --> 02:05:36,286 on every one of those branches. 2766 02:05:36,286 --> 02:05:37,912 Steven's second act, 2767 02:05:37,912 --> 02:05:40,248 it's amazing how much he's accomplished. 2768 02:05:42,542 --> 02:05:44,586 Is that the teachers? 2769 02:05:46,212 --> 02:05:49,007 All of a sudden, he's involved in TV, radio, 2770 02:05:49,007 --> 02:05:52,052 education, he's building a record label. 2771 02:05:52,469 --> 02:05:54,596 Steven showed up to our gig, 2772 02:05:54,596 --> 02:05:56,222 he's like, "I want that record." 2773 02:05:56,222 --> 02:05:57,724 You can have that record. 2774 02:05:57,724 --> 02:05:59,392 It's all about music for him. 2775 02:05:59,392 --> 02:06:01,561 There's just a lot of bands these days, 2776 02:06:01,561 --> 02:06:03,521 and a lot of the bands came to us saying 2777 02:06:03,521 --> 02:06:04,731 "We need more help." 2778 02:06:04,731 --> 02:06:06,358 That was gonna be successful, 2779 02:06:06,358 --> 02:06:07,859 because people love rock. 2780 02:06:07,859 --> 02:06:10,111 ♪ One, two three Good love ♪ 2781 02:06:11,154 --> 02:06:12,197 ♪ Good love ♪ 2782 02:06:12,197 --> 02:06:14,282 He was on fire 2783 02:06:14,282 --> 02:06:15,992 about this Rascals thing. 2784 02:06:15,992 --> 02:06:18,995 The next thing I know, it's on Broadway, 2785 02:06:18,995 --> 02:06:21,164 which is tremendous. 2786 02:06:21,539 --> 02:06:23,541 He sees it historically, 2787 02:06:23,541 --> 02:06:25,502 'cause he is a historian. 2788 02:06:25,502 --> 02:06:28,546 He probably knows more about my music than I do. 2789 02:06:28,546 --> 02:06:31,383 It's every performer's dream to play Broadway. 2790 02:06:31,383 --> 02:06:33,218 That dream came true for me 2791 02:06:33,718 --> 02:06:36,554 when I wrote and co-directed Once Upon a Dream, 2792 02:06:36,554 --> 02:06:38,181 reuniting The Rascals. 2793 02:06:38,181 --> 02:06:42,143 ♪ How can I be sure ♪ 2794 02:06:42,894 --> 02:06:47,065 ♪ I'll be sure ♪ 2795 02:06:47,565 --> 02:06:51,069 ♪ With you ♪ 2796 02:06:52,195 --> 02:06:54,364 One of the police officers who was helping us 2797 02:06:54,364 --> 02:06:56,366 when we'd come out of the stage door, 2798 02:06:57,283 --> 02:06:58,535 pulls me aside and says, 2799 02:06:58,535 --> 02:07:00,704 "I've been working Broadway for 20 years, 2800 02:07:00,704 --> 02:07:02,872 and I have never seen an audience 2801 02:07:02,872 --> 02:07:06,167 come out of a show like this. 2802 02:07:06,543 --> 02:07:08,420 Cheering, singing, 2803 02:07:08,420 --> 02:07:10,255 smiles, happiness." 2804 02:07:10,255 --> 02:07:13,258 It took people to a place, in the audience, 2805 02:07:13,258 --> 02:07:16,344 that they never thought in their wildest dreams 2806 02:07:16,344 --> 02:07:18,263 they would ever get back to. 2807 02:07:18,722 --> 02:07:22,600 Musicians are very theatrical. 2808 02:07:22,892 --> 02:07:25,812 They become different people, you know. 2809 02:07:25,812 --> 02:07:29,441 When I stood on the stage of Carnegie Hall, 2810 02:07:29,441 --> 02:07:32,986 and announced Stevie's name, 2811 02:07:33,445 --> 02:07:34,904 I just felt so cool. 2812 02:07:35,196 --> 02:07:37,615 I mean, I just felt like my world went... 2813 02:07:37,615 --> 02:07:41,119 And I could be... 2814 02:07:41,911 --> 02:07:43,413 anything I wanted to be. 2815 02:07:49,210 --> 02:07:51,796 Now, this could only happen 2816 02:07:52,297 --> 02:07:54,049 to a guy like me. 2817 02:07:55,884 --> 02:07:59,846 And only happened in a town like this. 2818 02:07:59,846 --> 02:08:01,765 - Am I right? 2819 02:08:01,765 --> 02:08:04,893 ♪ This is ♪ 2820 02:08:04,893 --> 02:08:08,980 ♪ My kind of town ♪ 2821 02:08:08,980 --> 02:08:10,440 ♪ Lilyhammer is... ♪ 2822 02:08:10,440 --> 02:08:12,150 I started a record label, 2823 02:08:12,150 --> 02:08:14,986 and I start signing a bunch of Norwegian bands. 2824 02:08:14,986 --> 02:08:17,989 I'm producing one of them in Bergen, Norway. 2825 02:08:17,989 --> 02:08:20,450 The assistant engineer says, "There's a couple 2826 02:08:20,450 --> 02:08:22,452 in the lobby, they wanna say hello." 2827 02:08:22,911 --> 02:08:25,330 It's Eilif Skodvin and Anne Bjornstad, 2828 02:08:25,330 --> 02:08:27,582 and they say to me, "We're TV writers, 2829 02:08:27,582 --> 02:08:29,501 and we wrote a TV show for you." 2830 02:08:29,918 --> 02:08:32,796 Well, 2831 02:08:32,796 --> 02:08:34,839 you don't hear that every day. 2832 02:08:34,839 --> 02:08:36,049 Kind of out of the blue, 2833 02:08:36,049 --> 02:08:37,842 I get a call from Stevie's agent, 2834 02:08:37,842 --> 02:08:40,470 saying, "Will you take a call with Stevie Van Zandt?" 2835 02:08:40,470 --> 02:08:43,473 And I said, "Would I? Anyone ever say no to that?" 2836 02:08:43,473 --> 02:08:46,518 Very excited. No idea what they're gonna talk about. 2837 02:08:46,518 --> 02:08:48,645 I'm thinking "Lilyhammer." 2838 02:08:48,645 --> 02:08:51,564 Three episodes were complete, and I loved it. 2839 02:08:51,940 --> 02:08:55,110 Really what that was, like the first Netflix show. 2840 02:08:55,110 --> 02:08:57,862 I think that that digital world, 2841 02:08:57,862 --> 02:09:00,073 for a guy who is as off-beat 2842 02:09:00,657 --> 02:09:02,367 as, uh, Steve is, 2843 02:09:02,367 --> 02:09:04,494 will create opportunities. 2844 02:09:04,494 --> 02:09:07,706 The sheep head, it's my dinner. 2845 02:09:07,706 --> 02:09:09,582 I thought I was gonna have to give 2846 02:09:09,582 --> 02:09:11,334 Johnny Fontaine a movie part. 2847 02:09:13,795 --> 02:09:15,338 It's Gary U.S. Bonds! 2848 02:09:15,338 --> 02:09:18,883 ♪ Should auld acquaintance Be forgot... ♪ 2849 02:09:18,883 --> 02:09:21,094 - I'm impressed. - Yeah! 2850 02:09:21,094 --> 02:09:23,221 I got to direct the final episode, 2851 02:09:23,221 --> 02:09:24,472 of Lilyhammer, 2852 02:09:24,472 --> 02:09:26,349 and that was one of my scripts, 2853 02:09:26,349 --> 02:09:27,809 uh, and, uh... 2854 02:09:28,560 --> 02:09:32,188 you know, I had been talking to Bruce about, uh... 2855 02:09:33,314 --> 02:09:34,566 getting in somewhere. 2856 02:09:34,566 --> 02:09:36,484 We had been talking since Sopranos. 2857 02:09:37,485 --> 02:09:39,404 Angelina, Anthony. 2858 02:09:39,654 --> 02:09:40,905 What brings you here? 2859 02:09:40,905 --> 02:09:43,992 It's our brother, like always. 2860 02:09:43,992 --> 02:09:46,244 I was thrilled that he did it, because, uh, 2861 02:09:46,244 --> 02:09:49,581 people have been trying to get him to act for 30 years. 2862 02:09:49,581 --> 02:09:51,875 You know, I'm proud of that. 2863 02:09:51,875 --> 02:09:53,668 We've been friends a long time, 2864 02:09:53,668 --> 02:09:56,212 still, you know, he trusted me. 2865 02:09:57,130 --> 02:09:59,424 No Child Left Behind legislation 2866 02:09:59,424 --> 02:10:02,427 had devastated all the arts classes in America, 2867 02:10:02,427 --> 02:10:04,346 So I said how about we do 2868 02:10:04,346 --> 02:10:06,348 a music history curriculum instead. 2869 02:10:06,348 --> 02:10:09,184 Teacher asks the kid, "What are you listening to?" 2870 02:10:09,184 --> 02:10:11,770 And whatever they answer, you trace it back. 2871 02:10:11,770 --> 02:10:13,605 And he's not kidding. 2872 02:10:13,605 --> 02:10:15,940 He wants rock and roll taught in school. 2873 02:10:15,940 --> 02:10:18,026 You mustn't lose the history of music, 2874 02:10:18,026 --> 02:10:19,944 the history of anything. 2875 02:10:19,944 --> 02:10:22,947 Rock and roll is important, it's great to have 2876 02:10:22,947 --> 02:10:25,825 Steven out there making sure people know 2877 02:10:25,825 --> 02:10:27,702 how important it is, what it means, 2878 02:10:27,702 --> 02:10:29,579 and what a lifeline it can be. 2879 02:10:29,996 --> 02:10:32,040 He's almost like John the Baptist. 2880 02:10:32,040 --> 02:10:34,834 He's out there screaming there's a sacredness, 2881 02:10:34,834 --> 02:10:36,336 there's a holiness to rock. 2882 02:10:36,336 --> 02:10:39,005 This guy is doing 40 things at once, 2883 02:10:39,005 --> 02:10:40,715 and they're all complicated. 2884 02:10:40,715 --> 02:10:42,384 And they're all good. 2885 02:10:51,351 --> 02:10:53,937 He's a writer, he's a director, 2886 02:10:53,937 --> 02:10:56,356 he's a musician, he's a producer, 2887 02:10:56,356 --> 02:10:59,150 he's a businessman, he's a philanthropist, 2888 02:10:59,150 --> 02:11:01,152 and now he wrote an entire book 2889 02:11:01,152 --> 02:11:03,321 in prose, and it's very good. 2890 02:11:03,863 --> 02:11:05,281 The book has it all. 2891 02:11:05,281 --> 02:11:08,284 Sex, drugs, rock and roll in unequal measure, 2892 02:11:08,284 --> 02:11:11,246 and the true story behind the bandana. 2893 02:11:11,788 --> 02:11:14,082 ♪ Could have been A politician ♪ 2894 02:11:14,499 --> 02:11:17,836 ♪ In a bulletproof Limousine ♪ 2895 02:11:18,503 --> 02:11:22,382 ♪ Could have made A lot of promises... ♪ 2896 02:11:23,341 --> 02:11:25,510 I did invite Stevie to my 80th. 2897 02:11:25,510 --> 02:11:28,680 Bill Wyman invited us to his 80th birthday party. 2898 02:11:28,680 --> 02:11:30,598 Leo Green, his crazy promoter, 2899 02:11:30,598 --> 02:11:33,518 he says, "That's the same week as my blues festival. 2900 02:11:34,269 --> 02:11:36,021 Why don't you throw a band together 2901 02:11:36,021 --> 02:11:37,564 and headline one night?" 2902 02:11:37,564 --> 02:11:38,898 It sounded like fun. 2903 02:11:38,898 --> 02:11:41,192 I thought maybe I'll bring the horns back, 2904 02:11:41,192 --> 02:11:45,655 I'll do a handful of my own songs from the old days. 2905 02:11:45,655 --> 02:11:47,032 For almost 30 years, 2906 02:11:47,032 --> 02:11:49,284 Steven did not perform his own music. 2907 02:11:49,284 --> 02:11:51,369 He acted, he was performing with Bruce, 2908 02:11:51,369 --> 02:11:53,830 he was involved in a lot of different things, 2909 02:11:53,830 --> 02:11:55,874 but he didn't play any of his own songs 2910 02:11:55,874 --> 02:11:57,542 for a very long time. 2911 02:11:57,876 --> 02:12:00,045 ♪ Could have been a lawyer ♪ 2912 02:12:00,545 --> 02:12:04,049 ♪ But my daddy taught me Right from wrong ♪ 2913 02:12:04,924 --> 02:12:07,594 ♪ That could have been The reason ♪ 2914 02:12:08,136 --> 02:12:10,972 ♪ Everything takes too long ♪ 2915 02:12:11,473 --> 02:12:15,268 ♪ I could have hung out In Hollywood ♪ 2916 02:12:15,268 --> 02:12:18,730 ♪ I could have Been a millionaire ♪ 2917 02:12:19,189 --> 02:12:20,857 ♪ Could have been big... ♪ 2918 02:12:20,857 --> 02:12:23,109 As I'm-as I'm going through my old songs, 2919 02:12:23,109 --> 02:12:25,570 I couldn't get through them at first. 2920 02:12:26,237 --> 02:12:28,239 And my-my throat was tightening up, 2921 02:12:28,239 --> 02:12:30,492 I-I... I started to tear up. 2922 02:12:30,492 --> 02:12:32,786 And I went to Bruce, I said, "Bruce, 2923 02:12:32,786 --> 02:12:35,121 has anything like this happened to you?" 2924 02:12:35,663 --> 02:12:39,292 And he's like, "Yeah, I know why, 2925 02:12:39,292 --> 02:12:42,379 because you abandoned your children for 30 years." 2926 02:12:43,421 --> 02:12:45,799 It reminded me these songs have value. 2927 02:12:45,799 --> 02:12:47,509 I really shouldn't have abandoned them. 2928 02:12:47,509 --> 02:12:50,428 I was like, "Dude, yeah, 2929 02:12:50,887 --> 02:12:52,472 you should be doing this." 2930 02:12:53,306 --> 02:12:55,725 But, you know, who knew he was 2931 02:12:55,725 --> 02:12:58,269 gonna pile it on top of everything else he's doing? 2932 02:12:58,269 --> 02:13:01,648 I was overjoyed. He should have been on the road anyway, 2933 02:13:01,648 --> 02:13:03,066 'cause he loves the road. 2934 02:13:03,066 --> 02:13:04,651 He stays in the fine hotels, 2935 02:13:04,651 --> 02:13:07,404 and, you know, drinks that fine wine and all that. 2936 02:13:15,912 --> 02:13:17,414 My first manager over here. 2937 02:13:17,414 --> 02:13:20,458 Nobody messes with Big Mama. You're my baby. 2938 02:13:20,458 --> 02:13:23,586 Without you, I don't know where I'd be. 2939 02:13:23,586 --> 02:13:25,130 Oh, Stevie. 2940 02:13:25,463 --> 02:13:28,758 ♪ Stop the world For a minute ♪ 2941 02:13:29,759 --> 02:13:33,680 ♪ Is that a tear I see in your eye? ♪ 2942 02:13:33,680 --> 02:13:38,018 ♪ This is your chance This is your moment, baby ♪ 2943 02:13:38,351 --> 02:13:41,229 ♪ Spread your wings It's time to fly... ♪ 2944 02:13:41,229 --> 02:13:43,148 He's a great performer, 2945 02:13:43,148 --> 02:13:44,649 great songwriter, 2946 02:13:44,649 --> 02:13:46,526 great producer, great arranger, 2947 02:13:46,526 --> 02:13:48,862 and made a couple of great records 2948 02:13:49,195 --> 02:13:50,864 that ought to be out there. 2949 02:13:50,864 --> 02:13:53,450 He had gone quite a-quite a period 2950 02:13:53,450 --> 02:13:56,745 without using some of his greatest abilities. 2951 02:13:56,745 --> 02:13:58,371 Stevie called me up and said, 2952 02:13:58,371 --> 02:14:00,790 "I wanna get back into doing this." 2953 02:14:00,790 --> 02:14:02,917 I said, "Of course, man." 2954 02:14:03,793 --> 02:14:07,172 That was just one of the sweet things about Steve. 2955 02:14:07,172 --> 02:14:09,424 Is that he would think, "Can I?" 2956 02:14:10,342 --> 02:14:12,218 That he would think to make that call. 2957 02:14:12,218 --> 02:14:14,971 I don't think that would happen in other bands. 2958 02:14:14,971 --> 02:14:18,141 ♪ Lighting the soulfire ♪ 2959 02:14:18,141 --> 02:14:20,185 ♪ Lighting the soulfire... ♪ 2960 02:14:20,185 --> 02:14:22,270 I saw them in downtown LA. 2961 02:14:22,270 --> 02:14:24,939 Mike Stoller was the emcee, 2962 02:14:24,939 --> 02:14:26,816 which blew my mind. 2963 02:14:26,816 --> 02:14:31,863 Here they are, Little Steven and the Disciples of Soul. 2964 02:14:36,785 --> 02:14:39,245 ♪ Ah yeah ♪ 2965 02:14:51,800 --> 02:14:53,051 When I put on "Soulfire" 2966 02:14:53,051 --> 02:14:54,177 for the first time, 2967 02:14:54,177 --> 02:14:55,387 I have to be honest, 2968 02:14:55,387 --> 02:14:57,263 I had tears running down my face, 2969 02:14:57,263 --> 02:14:59,224 because it picked me up 2970 02:14:59,224 --> 02:15:01,559 and threw me back into 1977. 2971 02:15:18,785 --> 02:15:19,869 ♪ Hey hey hey... ♪ 2972 02:15:19,869 --> 02:15:21,413 He gets on with it. 2973 02:15:21,413 --> 02:15:24,749 Who goes on the road with 14 musicians? 2974 02:15:27,794 --> 02:15:29,462 Steven asked me, 2975 02:15:29,462 --> 02:15:31,965 "Can you find out how big the stage is 2976 02:15:31,965 --> 02:15:33,758 at the Cavern Club in Liverpool?" 2977 02:15:33,758 --> 02:15:36,302 And I went, "Uh, yeah, why?" 2978 02:15:36,302 --> 02:15:38,346 And he goes, "I wanna play there." 2979 02:15:38,346 --> 02:15:40,807 You are eternally part 2980 02:15:41,683 --> 02:15:42,934 of our wall of fame. 2981 02:15:42,934 --> 02:15:44,352 - Thank you. 2982 02:15:44,352 --> 02:15:45,520 It's your turn. 2983 02:15:49,733 --> 02:15:51,484 I love his enthusiasm, 2984 02:15:51,484 --> 02:15:54,946 and his passion for what we both love. 2985 02:15:54,946 --> 02:15:57,323 He lives it and he promotes it, 2986 02:15:57,323 --> 02:15:59,159 you know, with his radio station. 2987 02:15:59,159 --> 02:16:02,162 ♪ Well, she was just 17 ♪ 2988 02:16:02,620 --> 02:16:05,331 ♪ If you know what I mean ♪ 2989 02:16:06,166 --> 02:16:07,625 ♪ And the way she looked... ♪ 2990 02:16:07,625 --> 02:16:09,294 The thing I see with Stevie, 2991 02:16:09,294 --> 02:16:11,087 I think he's just following threads 2992 02:16:11,087 --> 02:16:12,922 that he really likes. 2993 02:16:13,381 --> 02:16:15,842 ♪ So how could I dance ♪ 2994 02:16:15,842 --> 02:16:18,136 ♪ With another ♪ 2995 02:16:18,136 --> 02:16:19,637 ♪ Woo ♪ 2996 02:16:19,637 --> 02:16:23,892 ♪ I saw her Standing there... ♪ 2997 02:16:23,892 --> 02:16:27,228 What he's doing, the tradition he's carrying on, 2998 02:16:27,645 --> 02:16:29,522 rock and soul, from Sam and Dave 2999 02:16:29,522 --> 02:16:32,025 to the Dave Clark Five to the Stones, 3000 02:16:32,025 --> 02:16:33,485 he's a witness. 3001 02:16:39,866 --> 02:16:41,993 ♪ Well, we made a promise ♪ 3002 02:16:41,993 --> 02:16:45,372 ♪ We swore we'd Always remember ♪ 3003 02:16:45,372 --> 02:16:47,499 ♪ No retreat, baby ♪ 3004 02:16:47,499 --> 02:16:50,085 ♪ No surrender... ♪ 3005 02:16:50,669 --> 02:16:53,338 It is 20 years now since we've been back. 3006 02:16:53,338 --> 02:16:55,090 It's crazy. 3007 02:16:55,090 --> 02:16:56,966 You know, it's, uh, 3008 02:16:57,300 --> 02:16:59,260 it feels like it's the way it ought to be. 3009 02:16:59,260 --> 02:17:02,806 ♪ Baby, no surrender ♪ 3010 02:17:02,806 --> 02:17:04,224 Come on, kid! 3011 02:17:04,224 --> 02:17:06,726 ♪ No retreat, baby ♪ 3012 02:17:06,726 --> 02:17:12,107 ♪ No ♪ 3013 02:17:12,357 --> 02:17:14,192 ♪ Surrender ♪ 3014 02:17:14,192 --> 02:17:15,777 Whoo! 3015 02:17:16,236 --> 02:17:18,113 Things have a way of coming around, 3016 02:17:18,530 --> 02:17:20,365 and working themselves out. 3017 02:17:20,782 --> 02:17:22,826 If people have the faith in... 3018 02:17:23,493 --> 02:17:25,870 in each other, it'll allow that to happen, 3019 02:17:25,870 --> 02:17:27,664 and the love, you know? 3020 02:17:38,425 --> 02:17:39,926 This is for Maureen. 3021 02:17:42,804 --> 02:17:44,139 She's been there 3022 02:17:44,139 --> 02:17:46,474 through the thick and the thin, 3023 02:17:46,891 --> 02:17:49,978 and that's pretty darn rare. 3024 02:17:49,978 --> 02:17:52,188 ♪ I wanna protect you ♪ 3025 02:17:52,188 --> 02:17:54,232 ♪ I wanna connect with you ♪ 3026 02:17:54,232 --> 02:17:57,068 ♪ I wanna affect you ♪ 3027 02:17:57,068 --> 02:17:58,611 ♪ I wanna reflect you ♪ 3028 02:17:58,611 --> 02:18:01,239 ♪ I wanna be your happy end ♪ 3029 02:18:01,614 --> 02:18:03,742 ♪ We start all over again ♪ 3030 02:18:03,742 --> 02:18:05,910 ♪ I wanna feel The same pain you do ♪ 3031 02:18:05,910 --> 02:18:08,413 ♪ Dancing in the rain With you ♪ 3032 02:18:08,413 --> 02:18:11,833 The two of them, they're both really lucky, you know? 3033 02:18:12,375 --> 02:18:13,960 And so is the dog. 3034 02:18:29,976 --> 02:18:33,521 And now he's back, there's no politics. 3035 02:18:33,521 --> 02:18:35,940 For the moment, you know? 3036 02:18:36,691 --> 02:18:38,443 I mean, he's still an activist. 3037 02:18:38,443 --> 02:18:40,653 It comes through in the spirit of the music, 3038 02:18:40,653 --> 02:18:42,781 and in the way that he plays it. 3039 02:18:44,616 --> 02:18:46,659 ♪ Take it easy ♪ 3040 02:18:46,659 --> 02:18:49,621 ♪ Yeah yeah yeah... ♪ 3041 02:18:49,621 --> 02:18:52,457 You know, Stevie told me many years ago 3042 02:18:52,457 --> 02:18:55,418 rock and roll kept him alive, 3043 02:18:55,418 --> 02:18:59,339 and I really do believe it's his religion. 3044 02:18:59,339 --> 02:19:02,467 ♪ I don't know If you realize it or not ♪ 3045 02:19:02,467 --> 02:19:06,137 ♪ Yeah yeah yeah ♪ 3046 02:19:06,137 --> 02:19:09,474 ♪ I don't know if you have Cable TV or not ♪ 3047 02:19:10,975 --> 02:19:13,978 ♪ But outside These walls right here ♪ 3048 02:19:13,978 --> 02:19:16,106 ♪ Yeah yeah yeah ♪ 3049 02:19:16,106 --> 02:19:19,067 ♪ The world is going Fucking crazy... ♪ 3050 02:19:21,778 --> 02:19:24,447 ♪ And we're here tonight ♪ 3051 02:19:25,532 --> 02:19:26,825 ♪ For sanctuary ♪ 3052 02:19:29,577 --> 02:19:31,579 ♪ We're here tonight ♪ 3053 02:19:31,579 --> 02:19:34,833 ♪ For some Spiritual nourishment ♪ 3054 02:19:36,084 --> 02:19:37,502 That's right. 3055 02:19:37,502 --> 02:19:39,713 We come to this cathedral 3056 02:19:41,423 --> 02:19:43,675 for spiritual nourishment. 3057 02:19:45,010 --> 02:19:48,179 And there ain't no spiritual nourishment 3058 02:19:48,638 --> 02:19:51,182 like real live music. 3059 02:19:55,228 --> 02:19:57,022 He has this passion 3060 02:19:57,022 --> 02:19:59,065 for rock and roll, 3061 02:20:00,900 --> 02:20:02,736 but Stevie goes beyond. 3062 02:20:03,862 --> 02:20:05,905 ♪ It makes you Wanna say yeah ♪ 3063 02:20:05,905 --> 02:20:07,449 - ♪ Yeah ♪ - ♪ Yeah... ♪ 3064 02:20:07,449 --> 02:20:09,200 A whole sort of 3065 02:20:09,200 --> 02:20:12,078 encyclopedic knowledge of music. 3066 02:20:12,537 --> 02:20:15,540 You know, um, I'd say I know quite a bit, 3067 02:20:16,041 --> 02:20:17,417 but he knows more. 3068 02:20:17,417 --> 02:20:19,544 ♪ Something like that Uh-huh ♪ 3069 02:20:19,544 --> 02:20:22,422 - ♪ Yeah yeah ♪ - ♪ Uh, huh ♪ 3070 02:20:22,422 --> 02:20:24,299 - ♪ Yeah ♪ - ♪ Yeah ♪ 3071 02:20:24,299 --> 02:20:25,550 - ♪ Yeah ♪ - ♪ Yeah... ♪ 3072 02:20:25,550 --> 02:20:27,218 The world isn't going to get 3073 02:20:27,218 --> 02:20:28,595 everything you do. 3074 02:20:28,595 --> 02:20:31,389 The success to me is that you had that vision, 3075 02:20:31,389 --> 02:20:32,891 and you followed through on it 3076 02:20:32,891 --> 02:20:34,851 and you went all the way with it. 3077 02:20:34,851 --> 02:20:38,188 ♪ Yeah give me some drums Give me some drums ♪ 3078 02:20:38,188 --> 02:20:39,564 - ♪ Yeah ♪ - ♪ Yeah ♪ 3079 02:20:39,564 --> 02:20:41,066 - ♪ Yeah yeah ♪ - ♪ Yeah ♪ 3080 02:20:41,483 --> 02:20:43,443 ♪ A little bit louder now ♪ 3081 02:20:43,443 --> 02:20:44,778 - ♪ Yeah ♪ - ♪ Yeah ♪ 3082 02:20:44,778 --> 02:20:46,363 - ♪ Yeah ♪ - ♪ Oh yeah ♪ 3083 02:20:46,363 --> 02:20:49,324 ♪ Yeah a little bit Louder, baby ♪ 3084 02:20:49,324 --> 02:20:50,575 - ♪ Yeah ♪ - ♪ Oh yeah ♪ 3085 02:20:50,575 --> 02:20:52,118 - ♪ Oh yeah ♪ - ♪ Yeah ♪ 3086 02:20:52,118 --> 02:20:54,079 ♪ Everybody sing now ♪ 3087 02:20:54,079 --> 02:20:57,290 ♪ Yeah yeah yeah ♪ 3088 02:20:57,290 --> 02:20:59,250 ♪ Everybody sing now ♪ 3089 02:20:59,250 --> 02:21:00,543 ♪ Yeah... ♪ 3090 02:21:00,543 --> 02:21:02,212 The fact that he manages 3091 02:21:02,212 --> 02:21:03,713 to put these things together, 3092 02:21:03,713 --> 02:21:05,715 and then the impact that they have, 3093 02:21:05,715 --> 02:21:09,052 is a credit to his belief in what he does. 3094 02:21:09,636 --> 02:21:12,180 ♪ Yeah yeah yeah ♪ 3095 02:21:12,180 --> 02:21:16,434 ♪ Oooh... ♪ 3096 02:21:16,434 --> 02:21:19,938 At the end of the day, Steve's a true believer. 3097 02:21:19,938 --> 02:21:22,273 ♪ Oh yeah ♪ 3098 02:22:19,914 --> 02:22:23,168 ♪ The old men make excuses ♪ 3099 02:22:23,168 --> 02:22:26,838 ♪ While the young men Bring the noise ♪ 3100 02:22:26,838 --> 02:22:30,425 ♪ And nothing ever changes ♪ 3101 02:22:30,425 --> 02:22:34,387 ♪ ‘Cause boys keep being boys ♪ 3102 02:22:34,387 --> 02:22:37,807 ♪ And the women Just surrendered ♪ 3103 02:22:37,807 --> 02:22:41,144 ♪ While Cinderella slept ♪ 3104 02:22:41,144 --> 02:22:44,898 ♪ Now they know they've waited Too long ♪ 3105 02:22:44,898 --> 02:22:49,527 ♪ There's nothing worth Stealing left ♪ 3106 02:22:50,153 --> 02:22:54,199 ♪ Under the camouflage Of righteousness ♪ 3107 02:22:54,199 --> 02:22:57,869 ♪ We supply the sins While you confess ♪ 3108 02:22:57,869 --> 02:23:03,541 ♪ You're seduced by The vampires' sweet caress ♪ 3109 02:23:03,541 --> 02:23:09,714 ♪ Behind the camouflage Of righteousness ♪ 3110 02:23:09,714 --> 02:23:12,926 ♪ We give you politicians ♪ 3111 02:23:12,926 --> 02:23:16,930 ♪ And you call it choice ♪ 3112 02:23:16,930 --> 02:23:20,183 ♪ We let you do the voting ♪ 3113 02:23:20,183 --> 02:23:24,062 ♪ And you think You have a voice ♪ 3114 02:23:24,062 --> 02:23:27,691 ♪ We control the information ♪ 3115 02:23:27,691 --> 02:23:31,444 ♪ And you call yourself Informed ♪ 3116 02:23:31,444 --> 02:23:34,698 ♪ We give you our religion ♪ 3117 02:23:34,698 --> 02:23:39,411 ♪ And you believe it's yours ♪ 3118 02:23:40,078 --> 02:23:44,040 ♪ Under the camouflage Of righteousness ♪ 3119 02:23:44,040 --> 02:23:47,711 ♪ We supply the sins While you confess ♪ 3120 02:23:47,711 --> 02:23:53,258 ♪ You're seduced by The vampires' sweet caress ♪ 3121 02:23:53,258 --> 02:24:00,140 ♪ Behind the camouflage Of righteousness ♪ 3122 02:24:36,217 --> 02:24:40,847 ♪ Breathe, Life is just a dream ♪ 3123 02:24:40,847 --> 02:24:44,768 ♪ Reach out and touch The screen ♪ 3124 02:24:45,518 --> 02:24:48,938 ♪ We're here to soothe you ♪ 3125 02:24:50,774 --> 02:24:52,067 ♪ Relax ♪ 3126 02:24:52,067 --> 02:24:55,236 ♪ It's better If you don't fight ♪ 3127 02:24:55,945 --> 02:24:58,948 ♪ Believe in the Flickering light ♪ 3128 02:24:58,948 --> 02:25:03,119 ♪ We can't afford to lose you ♪ 3129 02:25:19,844 --> 02:25:22,806 ♪ We offer you diversion ♪ 3130 02:25:22,806 --> 02:25:26,267 ♪ On any channel you choose ♪ 3131 02:25:26,267 --> 02:25:29,813 ♪ We give you bread And circus ♪ 3132 02:25:29,813 --> 02:25:33,692 ♪ And you still call it news ♪ 3133 02:25:33,692 --> 02:25:37,195 ♪ We orchestrate your hatred ♪ 3134 02:25:37,195 --> 02:25:40,865 ♪ It's as clear as white And black ♪ 3135 02:25:40,865 --> 02:25:44,202 ♪ We select your history ♪ 3136 02:25:44,202 --> 02:25:48,873 ♪ And you believe it's fact ♪ 3137 02:25:49,582 --> 02:25:53,712 ♪ Under the camouflage Of righteousness ♪ 3138 02:25:53,712 --> 02:25:57,215 ♪ We supply the sins While you confess ♪ 3139 02:25:57,215 --> 02:26:02,762 ♪ You're seduced by The vampires' sweet caress ♪ 3140 02:26:03,304 --> 02:26:14,232 ♪ Behind the camouflage Of righteousness ♪ 3141 02:26:14,232 --> 02:26:20,280 ♪ Behind the camouflage... ♪