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Downloaded from
YTS.MX
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Hi.
This is Conrad Henri Roy III
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Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX
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reporting to you
about what's going on
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through my mind,
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what's going on through
my head the last few days.
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I'm 18 years old,
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and I still haven't recovered
from social anxiety,
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depression.
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It's controlling me.
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I am who I am.
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I need to be comfortable
with my skin.
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I just need
to get the cobwebs out,
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turn the gears.
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The gears need to be turning.
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Turn them gears.
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That's what I gotta do.
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A woman from Massachusetts
allegedly encouraging
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her boyfriend to commit suicide.
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I do not want another mother
to ever feel the way I do.
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It was an apparent suicide.
Apparent being the keyword.
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We wanna try to find out
what happened.
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Conrad was constantly
texting Michelle,
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but he hid it from everyone.
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Sixty thousand items
are pulled from her phone.
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People just hated her.
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- She's a terrible person.
- To me, she's evil.
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But the question became
was it criminally wrong?
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She is not forming
a criminal intent.
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She was dealing with her own
mental health issues.
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[man] Ms. Carter,
please stand.
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[Ashleigh] I've never seen
anything like it.
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Was it suicide or murder?
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I just remember
thinking like why?
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The world definitely will
be missing out without him.
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Sorry.
I can't take this.
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[dramatic music playing]
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[Ted]
Fairhaven, Massachusetts
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is a community
near one of the largest
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fishing ports in the East Coast.
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It's a nice seaside community.
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I would say
a working class community
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where a lot of people
work on the water.
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It's a great place
to be in the summer.
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My kids always had access
to the beach and,
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you know, fun activities,
sailing, boating.
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Just a really beautiful
little town near the ocean.
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[Ashleigh] It's about
10:00 PM on July 12th.
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Lynn Roy is settling down
for the night.
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She's a single mom of three.
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And she's a little bit nervous
because her 18-year-old son,
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Conrad, had gone out
earlier to a friend's house
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and she hasn't heard
from him since.
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[Lynn] He said, "I'm going
to see my friend, Aryanna."
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I said, "Are you gonna
come back for dinner?"
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He's like, "I'm not sure."
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[Ted] About 10:30
in the evening,
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she sends him a text
wondering where he is.
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She doesn't hear back
so she asked Conrad's sister,
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"Hey, have you heard from him?
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Do you know where he is?"
And the sister said,
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"No. I haven't seen him.
I haven't heard from him."
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But she said to her mom,
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"I did get this text from a girl
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who is also looking for him."
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Camdyn was getting
a text message,
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and it read, "Do you know
where your brother is?"
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I was like... She's asking
where Conrad was,
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but he said he was going
to his friend Aryanna's house.
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And my like mom was thinking
at the time like,
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"Oh, like you don't wanna like
mess up anything for him,
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really cause anything like...
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'Cause he's at like a friend...
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That's a girl's house."
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So I just said,
"He's at my dad's house."
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I wished I would have...
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[sighs] I don't remember
if I picked up the phone.
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I tried calling him.
He didn't answer.
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And then I just said,
"I'm going to bed right now."
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It's like... At that point,
it was probably 11:00.
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I woke up
in the middle of the night,
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a couple hours later
and I messaged him
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and I just said,
"When are you coming home?
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It's really, really late."
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The next morning, Lynn wakes up
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and she surprised to see
that Conrad still isn't home.
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His mom was calling me.
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She called me starting
at like 5:30 in the morning.
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And she actually thought
that Conrad was at my house
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because that's what
he had told her.
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And then when I told her
he wasn't there,
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that's kind of when I got
a weird feeling.
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I just like felt
something was wrong.
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Honestly, I had this feeling
that went through my body
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that I've never felt in my life.
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And I feel like it was
his soul going through me.
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It was the most chilling
feeling I've ever had.
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That's when I called the police.
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[police dispatch]
And what is your son's name?
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- [Lynn] Conrad Roy III.
- [police dispatch] All right.
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What kind of truck
does he drive?
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[Lynn] A Ford 250.
It's a diesel, big black,
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and it's got a bunch
of stickers on the back.
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[police dispatch]
All right. I am gonna send
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an officer out to take a report.
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[Lynn] Okay.
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My name is David Correia,
former police officer
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with the Fairhaven
Police Department.
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All I knew over the radio
was I was to take
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a missing person's report.
When I got there,
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I talked to Lynn Roy
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and she told me
what was going on,
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that he suffered
from depression.
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And that made me realize
that I was gonna have
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to step up my game on this one.
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Conrad Roy
was born in New Bedford,
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St. Luke's Hospital,
September 12th, 1995.
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My mother was there
and Conrad's father.
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We were not married at the time
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so it was kind of
uneasy in that way,
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but we were very committed.
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We eventually, got married
and had two more children.
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I work as a nurse
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and Conrad's father
is a tugboat captain.
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Just ordinary working parents
trying to raise our kids.
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When I think about my brother,
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I think of a funny,
like happy, like smart.
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He was really smart.
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He just had a really funny,
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kind of sometimes
sick sense of humor,
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but I got him.
He was goofy like that.
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Conrad wanted to be a Major
League baseball player
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for the Boston Red Sox.
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That was like his dream.
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But as he got older,
he wanted to be a captain.
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And that was like when he
started working with my dad.
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My grandfather,
he's a tugboat captain,
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and he kind of just like
brought that down to my dad,
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and that kind of passed down
to my brother.
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[Robi] By all accounts,
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Conrad was a normal teenager
until 2011
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when his parents divorced,
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and it turned
his world upside down.
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The breakup was hard
on all three of the kids,
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but especially
on Conrad who was,
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like many kids,
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struggling with depression
and social anxiety.
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[Lynn] He just started
having trouble sleeping
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and couldn't focus.
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He had a lot of...
a lot of knowledge
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in his head and just...
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He was clouded by his anxiety.
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He can be the happiest
person in the room
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but he had so much going on
in his head at once,
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and so he was struggling a lot.
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[Lynn] You wanna do your best
as a parent
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to be there and support him.
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We felt we were doing
the best thing.
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We took him
to a few psychiatrists.
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He was treated,
and his diagnosis
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was anxiety, depression.
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[Aryanna]
The next couple of months
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was where he was super positive.
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Taking his medication
like he was supposed to.
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Seeing a therapist
like he was supposed to.
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[Ted] But in October 2012,
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he attempted to kill himself
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by overdosing on Acetaminophen.
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He contacted
a friend and told him,
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"Hey, this is what I did."
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[Aryanna]
He was at his dad's house,
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and that's when I called
his mom and she said,
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"No, I haven't heard from him.
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Like what's going on?"
And I said,
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"I feel we need
to get over there."
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Aryanna saved his life,
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possibly, by alerting his mom.
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His mom
got the authorities involved.
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I think we were all in shock.
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It seemed like
a major cry for help.
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[dramatic music playing]
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[Lynn] I was scared.
Scared to death.
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He told me that he would
never do that again.
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And then, of course, I said,
"Promise me,
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you will never do that.
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If you ever feel
that way, you have...
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You need to talk to me."
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And then it was the winter
of 2013,
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he seemed
like he was doing better.
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I thought he was, you know,
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just feeling better
about himself.
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Mrs. Roy told me that the day
before he went missing,
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he had actually gone for
a walk with her on the beach.
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[Lynn] We walked at the beach,
and we talked,
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and we shared some clam cakes.
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He wanted to be with me
and his sisters that day.
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I remember like just
like laughing with him,
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like enjoying ourselves
like with him.
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[Camdyn]
He just went back home
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and he's like heading out
the house.
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He said bye.
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And that was the last time
we saw him.
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[dramatic music playing]
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At the time he left the house,
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00:10:17,583 --> 00:10:20,885
he was driving a black
Ford F-250 pickup truck.
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Mrs. Roy
gave me the plate number,
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she gave me
his cellphone number,
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and everything that I would
need to try and find him.
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[police dispatch]
To all cars in station,
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00:10:29,729 --> 00:10:33,531
this is for a missing
18-year-old boy.
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00:10:33,599 --> 00:10:36,935
Male party is driving
a black Ford pickup
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250 diesel truck.
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Male is gonna be a Conrad Roy.
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[David] I started
actively searching for him
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by going over
to Fish Island in New Bedford
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where the Roys
keep their tugboats.
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I started there and then
I worked my way back east
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into Fairhaven
going along the waterfront.
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00:10:56,689 --> 00:10:59,724
While police begin
their canvas of the area,
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00:10:59,759 --> 00:11:02,994
family and friends
are also out looking for him.
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Everyone is desperate
to find Conrad.
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There's a McDonald's
that he would always go to,
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and so I went there.
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00:11:09,835 --> 00:11:11,603
Looked around
in the McDonald's parking lot
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00:11:11,737 --> 00:11:14,272
and then just kept going
towards the Fairhaven Bridge.
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While I was looking for him,
I was just a mess.
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I was super scared, anxious.
I was nauseous.
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00:11:21,981 --> 00:11:24,983
Kind of seemed like the world
was just like still
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and just like nothing
was happening
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and time wasn't moving.
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[dramatic music playing]
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I'd just come out
of the parking lot
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00:11:34,860 --> 00:11:38,029
of the Seaport Motel,
and as I looked to my right,
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00:11:38,064 --> 00:11:40,999
I see going south
on Middle Street
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a black Ford F-250.
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The vehicle
takes a right-hand turn
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into the Kmart parking lot.
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While following that truck,
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00:11:51,077 --> 00:11:56,081
he sees another black
F-250 in the parking lot.
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I looked,
and it was the plate number
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00:11:58,684 --> 00:12:01,019
of the Ford F-250
that I was looking for.
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00:12:03,889 --> 00:12:05,223
I didn't see
that there was anybody
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00:12:05,290 --> 00:12:06,624
inside of the truck
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00:12:06,692 --> 00:12:08,526
until I walked up to the truck.
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I've seen what he looks like.
It's his vehicle.
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[sighs] At this time,
I'm 99% sure that it's him.
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He was lying
askew in the front seat.
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00:12:23,976 --> 00:12:26,211
His glasses
were slanted on his face.
249
00:12:26,245 --> 00:12:28,880
His hat was cocked to one side.
250
00:12:28,914 --> 00:12:31,583
It wasn't natural.
251
00:12:31,817 --> 00:12:33,084
[sighs]
252
00:12:34,987 --> 00:12:37,989
[dramatic music playing]
253
00:12:41,861 --> 00:12:44,129
I called it in
that I had found the vehicle.
254
00:12:44,196 --> 00:12:47,132
And I called
the fire department.
255
00:12:47,199 --> 00:12:48,767
[Ted] Officer Correia
wants to enter the car
256
00:12:48,801 --> 00:12:50,535
but he is also being smart.
257
00:12:50,602 --> 00:12:53,171
He wants to make sure
that he doesn't expose himself
258
00:12:53,205 --> 00:12:55,774
to anything dangerous.
259
00:12:55,808 --> 00:12:57,142
My name is Wally Therrien.
260
00:12:57,209 --> 00:12:59,043
I was in charge
of the shift that morning
261
00:12:59,078 --> 00:13:00,979
that the incident happened.
262
00:13:01,013 --> 00:13:03,581
When I thought
it was safe to open the door,
263
00:13:03,616 --> 00:13:06,050
I opened up
the driver's door of the car.
264
00:13:09,588 --> 00:13:12,824
So I checked for a pulse
or carotid artery,
265
00:13:12,891 --> 00:13:15,326
and he had no pulse.
266
00:13:15,361 --> 00:13:18,196
He was obviously deceased.
267
00:13:20,099 --> 00:13:22,734
[Ashleigh]
It is a really sad moment.
268
00:13:22,768 --> 00:13:27,205
Everybody had hoped that they
were gonna find Conrad alive.
269
00:13:27,239 --> 00:13:29,941
He had no trauma on his body,
270
00:13:29,975 --> 00:13:32,143
but then they noticed
a gasoline-powered
271
00:13:32,177 --> 00:13:33,945
water pump in the backseat.
272
00:13:33,979 --> 00:13:37,148
And it was evident
that it was a suicide.
273
00:13:37,983 --> 00:13:40,318
We came to the conclusion
that what had happened
274
00:13:40,352 --> 00:13:42,921
was he used the pump
to asphyxiate himself
275
00:13:42,988 --> 00:13:44,589
with exhaust gases.
276
00:13:46,025 --> 00:13:48,593
[dramatic music playing]
277
00:13:48,661 --> 00:13:50,528
[Lynn] Conrad's father
was looking for him
278
00:13:50,596 --> 00:13:52,263
and he was in touch
with the police.
279
00:13:52,331 --> 00:13:54,866
And they had called him first.
280
00:13:54,933 --> 00:13:57,735
Then he called me and he said
"Are you alone?"
281
00:13:57,803 --> 00:13:59,871
And I said, "No.
I've got the girls with me."
282
00:13:59,938 --> 00:14:02,307
And he was like,
"It's not good."
283
00:14:05,144 --> 00:14:07,545
He said he passed.
He's not here.
284
00:14:07,613 --> 00:14:09,881
He's not with us.
285
00:14:09,948 --> 00:14:11,382
[sighs]
286
00:14:14,019 --> 00:14:15,920
[Camdyn] And my mom
was in the passenger seat
287
00:14:15,955 --> 00:14:18,156
just like hysterically crying.
288
00:14:19,825 --> 00:14:22,827
She couldn't say anything
for like a little bit
289
00:14:22,895 --> 00:14:25,830
'cause I don't know
how you tell your 13
290
00:14:25,898 --> 00:14:27,765
and 11-year-old daughter
291
00:14:27,833 --> 00:14:30,602
like their big brother
has passed away.
292
00:14:30,803 --> 00:14:31,803
So she was like keep on saying,
293
00:14:31,837 --> 00:14:33,504
"He's gone. He's gone."
294
00:14:35,174 --> 00:14:38,142
[Morgan] And we were just like
crying the whole car ride.
295
00:14:38,177 --> 00:14:40,712
I didn't like know what to feel,
296
00:14:40,779 --> 00:14:43,014
because my mom was like that...
297
00:14:43,048 --> 00:14:45,283
I've never see my mom
like that before.
298
00:14:48,053 --> 00:14:49,187
[Aryanna]
I was actually driving
299
00:14:49,254 --> 00:14:50,855
over the Fairhaven Bridge
300
00:14:50,923 --> 00:14:53,224
when they told me the news.
301
00:14:53,259 --> 00:14:55,994
Lynn was a mess
and she just kept saying,
302
00:14:56,061 --> 00:14:58,162
"He finally did it.
He did it."
303
00:14:58,196 --> 00:15:01,266
I don't know really
remember too much after that.
304
00:15:03,569 --> 00:15:05,570
[Lynn] I try
not to think about that day.
305
00:15:07,306 --> 00:15:10,241
The worst day of my life.
306
00:15:10,276 --> 00:15:13,378
[dramatic music playing]
307
00:15:16,649 --> 00:15:18,416
In Massachusetts, there is a law
308
00:15:18,483 --> 00:15:22,320
where any unattended death
needs to be investigated
309
00:15:22,354 --> 00:15:25,156
and authorities
need to sign off on it.
310
00:15:25,223 --> 00:15:26,824
I'm Chief Michael Myers
311
00:15:26,858 --> 00:15:27,959
of the Fairhaven
Police Department.
312
00:15:28,026 --> 00:15:29,794
It was an apparent suicide.
313
00:15:29,828 --> 00:15:31,829
But obviously
apparent being the key word,
314
00:15:31,897 --> 00:15:33,898
our protocol
is to obviously handle
315
00:15:33,966 --> 00:15:37,201
any death investigation as
thorough as we possibly can.
316
00:15:38,170 --> 00:15:40,571
I'm Sgt. Gordon
and I was an investigator
317
00:15:40,673 --> 00:15:43,508
for the Conrad Roy case.
318
00:15:43,575 --> 00:15:45,610
It's not very common
that we see people
319
00:15:45,644 --> 00:15:47,612
of that age
take their own lives.
320
00:15:47,646 --> 00:15:50,281
As a result of that,
I dug in a little deeper.
321
00:15:51,817 --> 00:15:53,751
The most important thing
that was actually taken
322
00:15:53,786 --> 00:15:56,955
from the scene that day
was Conrad's cellphone.
323
00:15:56,989 --> 00:16:00,525
Many cases today
are solved through things
324
00:16:00,592 --> 00:16:02,794
located and found in cellphones.
325
00:16:02,861 --> 00:16:05,964
Every suicide is tragic,
326
00:16:05,998 --> 00:16:08,766
but this would prove
to be more awful
327
00:16:08,801 --> 00:16:11,002
than anyone imagined.
328
00:16:11,069 --> 00:16:13,037
And what was in that phone
would end up
329
00:16:13,072 --> 00:16:15,974
being pivotal to this case.
330
00:16:16,008 --> 00:16:18,142
When I opened the phone
and started going through
331
00:16:18,210 --> 00:16:20,945
the phone is when it came
to light that there was
332
00:16:21,013 --> 00:16:23,114
something we need
to look into a little further.
333
00:16:25,017 --> 00:16:26,684
I'm Det. Glenn Cudmore
334
00:16:26,752 --> 00:16:29,120
with the Fairhaven
Police Department.
335
00:16:29,154 --> 00:16:31,923
I was made aware the case
by interacting
336
00:16:31,957 --> 00:16:34,092
with Det. Scott Gordon.
337
00:16:34,159 --> 00:16:36,461
Our desks were across
from each other,
338
00:16:36,495 --> 00:16:39,197
and Det. Gordon
was looking through the phone
339
00:16:39,231 --> 00:16:42,333
and he started reading out
loud the text messages.
340
00:16:43,135 --> 00:16:45,903
There was only one thread there,
341
00:16:45,971 --> 00:16:47,071
whereas, most of us,
342
00:16:47,106 --> 00:16:48,840
we open up
our text message thread
343
00:16:48,907 --> 00:16:51,442
and we have everyone
we talk to on a daily basis.
344
00:16:52,244 --> 00:16:53,978
It appears
that he had taken the time
345
00:16:54,046 --> 00:16:57,215
to delete everyone else
thread's messages,
346
00:16:57,249 --> 00:16:59,550
but there was thread messages,
347
00:16:59,718 --> 00:17:02,120
text messages between Conrad Roy
348
00:17:02,187 --> 00:17:04,389
and someone
named Michelle Carter.
349
00:17:06,025 --> 00:17:09,394
[dramatic music playing]
350
00:17:37,923 --> 00:17:39,891
[Ashleigh] These texts
are really alarming.
351
00:17:39,958 --> 00:17:41,526
This person clearly knew
352
00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:43,761
that Conrad
was thinking about suicide,
353
00:17:43,829 --> 00:17:46,197
and yet
seem to be encouraging him.
354
00:17:46,231 --> 00:17:48,032
Who is this Michelle Carter?
355
00:17:48,100 --> 00:17:51,302
[dramatic music playing]
356
00:17:52,004 --> 00:17:54,105
My name is Maryclare Flynn.
357
00:17:54,172 --> 00:17:56,941
I'm an assistant district
attorney in Bristol County.
358
00:17:56,975 --> 00:17:58,376
What I said to the detectives
359
00:17:58,410 --> 00:18:00,778
was we need to find out
who this girl is,
360
00:18:00,846 --> 00:18:04,015
and we also have to make sure
that we don't tip
361
00:18:04,049 --> 00:18:05,950
the Roy family off
to an investigation
362
00:18:05,984 --> 00:18:08,786
that might mean nothing
in the end.
363
00:18:08,854 --> 00:18:10,254
Through social media
and different things
364
00:18:10,322 --> 00:18:12,123
that we could look at,
365
00:18:12,190 --> 00:18:15,159
we were able to identify her,
her family.
366
00:18:16,028 --> 00:18:17,528
Michelle Carter appeared to us
367
00:18:17,596 --> 00:18:19,130
to be just a young girl
368
00:18:19,197 --> 00:18:22,166
from Plainville, Massachusetts.
369
00:18:22,201 --> 00:18:25,570
[Ted] Plainville
is a town south of Boston.
370
00:18:25,637 --> 00:18:29,107
It's a typical New England
bedroom community.
371
00:18:29,141 --> 00:18:31,943
Michelle Carter
is a senior in high school
372
00:18:32,010 --> 00:18:33,511
at King Philip Regional
High School
373
00:18:33,545 --> 00:18:35,246
where she's an honor student.
374
00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:37,148
She plays sports.
375
00:18:38,217 --> 00:18:39,650
I'm Ed McFarland.
376
00:18:39,685 --> 00:18:41,552
I'm a friend
of the Carter family.
377
00:18:41,620 --> 00:18:43,988
Michelle came in
through the softball program.
378
00:18:44,022 --> 00:18:45,857
I could always
count on her showing up.
379
00:18:45,891 --> 00:18:48,893
She was very loyal.
She has a younger sister,
380
00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:51,929
and her parents were
the typical very helpful type.
381
00:18:51,964 --> 00:18:55,133
You know, the father
would help out coaching,
382
00:18:55,167 --> 00:18:56,134
the... You know,
383
00:18:56,168 --> 00:18:57,869
the mother would do
the snack shack,
384
00:18:57,903 --> 00:19:02,140
and the other type
of supportive things.
385
00:19:02,174 --> 00:19:04,742
I remember
when I saw the senior class
386
00:19:04,776 --> 00:19:06,310
of [indistinct] she was named
387
00:19:06,378 --> 00:19:08,012
"student most likely
to make you feel good
388
00:19:08,046 --> 00:19:09,714
about your day."
389
00:19:09,781 --> 00:19:11,015
[Ashleigh] But detectives
still don't know
390
00:19:11,049 --> 00:19:13,885
how Michelle and Conrad
knew each other.
391
00:19:13,919 --> 00:19:16,921
Plainville is about an hour's
drive from Fairhaven.
392
00:19:16,988 --> 00:19:18,856
Plainville
is upper middle class.
393
00:19:18,924 --> 00:19:21,092
Fairhaven is more blue-collar.
394
00:19:21,126 --> 00:19:25,029
And, in some respects,
they're worlds apart.
395
00:19:25,063 --> 00:19:27,098
When we spoke with people
in the early stages
396
00:19:27,132 --> 00:19:28,766
of the investigation,
397
00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:30,034
we kind of just tried
to figure out
398
00:19:30,068 --> 00:19:32,336
what was her role
on his life at that time.
399
00:19:33,772 --> 00:19:35,706
[Robi] Police felt it was
just a little too soon
400
00:19:35,741 --> 00:19:37,041
to go to the family.
401
00:19:37,075 --> 00:19:40,111
They still had
a funeral to prepare for.
402
00:19:40,145 --> 00:19:42,980
It was just a little too
soon to start digging around
403
00:19:43,015 --> 00:19:47,185
and asking them if they knew
who Michelle Carter was.
404
00:19:48,987 --> 00:19:51,055
At the autopsy,
the medical examiner
405
00:19:51,089 --> 00:19:53,057
finds no evidence of drugs
or alcohol
406
00:19:53,091 --> 00:19:55,626
in Conrad's system but confirmed
407
00:19:55,694 --> 00:19:58,963
that he had died
of carbon monoxide poisoning.
408
00:20:00,299 --> 00:20:02,533
Authorities believe
that the time of death
409
00:20:02,568 --> 00:20:04,202
was about 8:00 PM
410
00:20:04,236 --> 00:20:06,170
the night before he was found.
411
00:20:08,006 --> 00:20:09,674
On July 18th,
412
00:20:09,708 --> 00:20:12,777
five days after
Conrad Roy was found dead,
413
00:20:12,844 --> 00:20:15,513
friends and family
attended a funeral
414
00:20:15,580 --> 00:20:18,115
and a wake to say goodbye.
415
00:20:18,183 --> 00:20:19,584
[Camdyn] At the wake,
416
00:20:19,651 --> 00:20:21,886
it was the longest line
I've ever seen.
417
00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:25,089
That just shows like how
many people cared about him.
418
00:20:25,123 --> 00:20:27,158
And I just wish...
I remember thinking,
419
00:20:27,192 --> 00:20:29,160
like I wished he saw
like this many people here,
420
00:20:29,194 --> 00:20:30,494
you know?
421
00:20:32,764 --> 00:20:34,532
[Ashleigh] Afterwards,
the detectives
422
00:20:34,599 --> 00:20:36,901
finally interview
Conrad's family.
423
00:20:36,935 --> 00:20:39,837
And his mother and sisters
surprise the detectives
424
00:20:39,871 --> 00:20:44,508
by bringing up Michelle
Carter's name unprompted.
425
00:20:44,543 --> 00:20:47,812
Now, the cops know
the family was aware of her,
426
00:20:47,879 --> 00:20:50,348
but they didn't know the
extent of the relationship
427
00:20:50,415 --> 00:20:53,484
until Lynn
made an important discovery.
428
00:20:54,987 --> 00:20:57,955
[Lynn] I ended up
finding a notebook.
429
00:20:58,023 --> 00:20:59,857
And I found this letter
that he wrote.
430
00:20:59,891 --> 00:21:02,093
Everyone in this life
that he loves.
431
00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:05,329
All of us, me, his dad,
432
00:21:06,064 --> 00:21:08,866
the girls.
433
00:21:08,900 --> 00:21:13,137
He wrote if everyone's happy
that he's gonna be happy.
434
00:21:13,171 --> 00:21:15,940
And he'll be smiling down.
435
00:21:15,974 --> 00:21:17,942
And, um...
436
00:21:19,945 --> 00:21:23,014
And then he wrote
something to her.
437
00:21:23,048 --> 00:21:24,615
[Ted]
Detectives are also given
438
00:21:24,650 --> 00:21:29,020
several suicide notes
that Conrad had written,
439
00:21:29,755 --> 00:21:34,425
and one of those suicide
notes was to Michelle Carter.
440
00:21:35,927 --> 00:21:38,863
[Lynn] He never told me
he was dating anyone.
441
00:21:38,930 --> 00:21:41,065
He was more low-key.
442
00:21:42,134 --> 00:21:44,869
He held a lot of...
a lot of...
443
00:21:44,936 --> 00:21:47,872
a lot of it in.
444
00:21:47,939 --> 00:21:50,074
There was just so much hidden.
445
00:21:52,110 --> 00:21:53,744
[dramatic music playing]
446
00:21:53,812 --> 00:21:55,579
[Jan] The story of Michelle
and Conrad
447
00:21:55,947 --> 00:21:59,050
actually starts before 2014.
448
00:21:59,084 --> 00:22:01,952
It starts in 2012
when the two teenagers
449
00:22:02,020 --> 00:22:04,155
were on separate
family vacations
450
00:22:04,189 --> 00:22:06,557
and they met each other.
451
00:22:06,758 --> 00:22:08,225
[Camdyn] Almost every
February vacation,
452
00:22:08,259 --> 00:22:09,827
we try to go to Florida
453
00:22:09,894 --> 00:22:12,330
to visit our great aunt
and uncle.
454
00:22:12,364 --> 00:22:14,865
And one year
while we were there,
455
00:22:14,900 --> 00:22:16,434
my great aunt introduced us all
456
00:22:16,468 --> 00:22:19,070
to her friends and their family.
457
00:22:20,138 --> 00:22:22,173
And their granddaughter Michelle
458
00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:24,542
was my brother's age.
459
00:22:26,144 --> 00:22:28,179
[Ted] They meet,
and the first thing
460
00:22:28,246 --> 00:22:31,082
they do together
is go on a bike ride.
461
00:22:31,116 --> 00:22:34,118
And they had a great time.
462
00:22:35,253 --> 00:22:38,923
After they get back
from Naples, Florida,
463
00:22:38,990 --> 00:22:41,559
they start communicating.
464
00:22:41,593 --> 00:22:45,029
And they do
what a lot of teens do now,
465
00:22:45,097 --> 00:22:46,597
they communicate through texts.
466
00:22:51,870 --> 00:22:53,938
[Rebecca] Many Gen Zers
will engage
467
00:22:54,005 --> 00:22:57,308
with their friends
over text predominantly.
468
00:22:58,610 --> 00:23:01,746
There's less of a pressure
there in the relationship too
469
00:23:01,813 --> 00:23:04,715
so that I can really let
my guard down let's say
470
00:23:04,750 --> 00:23:07,551
because I'm using my phone
or my computer to talk to
471
00:23:07,619 --> 00:23:09,920
rather than having
to stress myself out
472
00:23:09,955 --> 00:23:11,989
to talk to you in person.
473
00:23:14,793 --> 00:23:18,763
What starts benign
but flirty stuff
474
00:23:18,830 --> 00:23:20,931
starts to get
a little more involved.
475
00:23:20,966 --> 00:23:26,070
But they only actually
hung out about five times.
476
00:23:26,104 --> 00:23:29,940
The first time
I met Michelle was in 2013.
477
00:23:29,975 --> 00:23:31,509
It was in the summer.
478
00:23:31,576 --> 00:23:33,844
It was at his baseball game.
479
00:23:33,912 --> 00:23:37,448
She seemed like a nice girl
and she had a nice family.
480
00:23:38,350 --> 00:23:40,785
I could see him
texting her all the time,
481
00:23:40,852 --> 00:23:42,887
and her name
would come up on his phone.
482
00:23:42,921 --> 00:23:45,055
I didn't think anything of it.
483
00:23:45,123 --> 00:23:48,592
Realizing that Conrad
and Michelle's relationship
484
00:23:48,660 --> 00:23:51,829
was almost
entirely via text messaging,
485
00:23:51,863 --> 00:23:54,098
the police asked the family
for permission
486
00:23:54,132 --> 00:23:56,567
to search Conrad's devices.
487
00:23:56,668 --> 00:23:58,102
We wanted to get his computers.
488
00:23:58,136 --> 00:24:00,137
We wanted to get
anything that we could
489
00:24:00,205 --> 00:24:02,072
that could potentially
shed more light
490
00:24:02,140 --> 00:24:04,041
on this relationship.
491
00:24:04,075 --> 00:24:06,076
The family eventually found
some videos
492
00:24:06,144 --> 00:24:08,913
on a computer
that he had made of himself.
493
00:24:08,947 --> 00:24:10,581
[Camdyn] I was just looking
at mom's computer,
494
00:24:10,849 --> 00:24:12,950
then I saw this "I" movie,
495
00:24:13,017 --> 00:24:14,952
and it was Conrad.
496
00:24:15,019 --> 00:24:17,888
And that was like a month
before he passed away.
497
00:24:17,956 --> 00:24:19,723
I rushed and got my mom,
498
00:24:19,758 --> 00:24:21,559
and we were just like...
499
00:24:21,626 --> 00:24:23,160
It's the first time
I heard his voice
500
00:24:23,228 --> 00:24:24,929
since he passed away.
501
00:24:24,963 --> 00:24:27,498
Hi. This is Conrad Roy.
502
00:24:27,532 --> 00:24:29,967
I'm gonna talk to you
about social anxiety.
503
00:24:30,702 --> 00:24:32,603
For me, social anxiety
504
00:24:32,704 --> 00:24:36,574
feels like it's overwhelming
my life.
505
00:24:36,808 --> 00:24:40,711
You know,
it's bunch of bull [bleep]
506
00:24:40,778 --> 00:24:42,546
I am who I am.
507
00:24:42,581 --> 00:24:44,582
I need to be comfortable
in my skin.
508
00:24:46,685 --> 00:24:48,986
And in order to be
comfortable with my skin,
509
00:24:50,388 --> 00:24:54,091
I'd have to just
be happy with myself,
510
00:24:54,125 --> 00:24:55,960
of who I am,
511
00:24:55,994 --> 00:24:58,062
Conrad Henry Roy III.
512
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:04,702
I want to recover from this,
513
00:25:04,769 --> 00:25:07,238
and I feel like I haven't
recovered from it yet.
514
00:25:07,305 --> 00:25:11,075
I feel like I still have
a long way to go
515
00:25:11,109 --> 00:25:13,110
to recover
from this social anxiety,
516
00:25:13,177 --> 00:25:17,615
this feeling of insecurity,
517
00:25:17,649 --> 00:25:23,554
feeling of neglect
towards myself.
518
00:25:26,124 --> 00:25:29,593
[Lynn] It was June 13th
when he did that video.
519
00:25:29,728 --> 00:25:33,397
It was exactly a month
before he passed away.
520
00:25:35,667 --> 00:25:37,535
The way he talks in that video,
521
00:25:37,602 --> 00:25:41,105
I think he's telling himself,
"Yeah, I'm gonna do better."
522
00:25:41,139 --> 00:25:45,543
What I'm doing is looking
at myself so negatively,
523
00:25:46,678 --> 00:25:49,280
looking at myself minuscule,
524
00:25:49,314 --> 00:25:52,950
little particle
on the face of this Earth.
525
00:25:53,852 --> 00:25:57,221
But I have a lot
to offer someone.
526
00:25:57,288 --> 00:26:00,224
I'm introverted,
nice and caring,
527
00:26:00,291 --> 00:26:01,525
with some benefits.
528
00:26:01,593 --> 00:26:03,027
I'm a nice kid.
529
00:26:05,063 --> 00:26:09,300
But it just comes
to point where I'm just...
530
00:26:14,072 --> 00:26:17,975
He just wanted to be better.
Like he wanted to live.
531
00:26:18,009 --> 00:26:20,244
And you could like see it
in that video.
532
00:26:20,311 --> 00:26:24,448
And now I wanna take steps
to control it.
533
00:26:25,250 --> 00:26:28,986
If I keep talking, keep talking,
534
00:26:29,554 --> 00:26:32,189
it's gonna get better.
535
00:26:32,256 --> 00:26:34,758
And when it gets better,
536
00:26:34,793 --> 00:26:37,227
I start to feel better
about myself.
537
00:26:38,763 --> 00:26:40,598
I just need my confidence.
538
00:26:40,665 --> 00:26:45,169
Just the ability to move
forward and move forward.
539
00:26:48,740 --> 00:26:53,611
It was very evident
that he was a very sensitive
540
00:26:53,678 --> 00:26:56,080
young man that was going
through a lot
541
00:26:56,147 --> 00:26:58,515
of similar things that a lot
of teenagers go through,
542
00:26:58,550 --> 00:27:00,084
and, unfortunately,
543
00:27:00,151 --> 00:27:02,519
Michelle Carter ended up
on the end of that phone.
544
00:27:04,089 --> 00:27:05,789
When detectives
looked at the text
545
00:27:05,824 --> 00:27:08,559
that Michelle sent To Conrad,
546
00:27:08,693 --> 00:27:12,162
the text make it clear
she had been texting him
547
00:27:12,230 --> 00:27:15,032
repeatedly
before he killed himself
548
00:27:15,099 --> 00:27:17,234
to go ahead and do it.
Don't back out.
549
00:27:17,301 --> 00:27:19,336
This is your time.
550
00:27:19,404 --> 00:27:21,905
The text messages
towards the end,
551
00:27:21,973 --> 00:27:24,141
you know,
eventually went strictly
552
00:27:24,175 --> 00:27:28,178
towards pursuing Conrad
to commit suicide.
553
00:27:29,014 --> 00:27:30,848
And she asked for assurance
554
00:27:30,915 --> 00:27:32,983
that he was deleting
the messages.
555
00:27:34,019 --> 00:27:35,986
She was trying to make sure
556
00:27:36,054 --> 00:27:37,721
that they weren't available
to be seen.
557
00:27:37,789 --> 00:27:41,158
[dramatic music playing]
558
00:28:15,727 --> 00:28:16,994
[Maryclare] We knew
that there was a phone call
559
00:28:17,028 --> 00:28:19,630
after the last text message.
560
00:28:19,697 --> 00:28:22,933
He calls her
for approximately 38 minutes,
561
00:28:22,967 --> 00:28:26,136
and then she calls him back
for another 42 minutes.
562
00:28:27,872 --> 00:28:29,907
[Ashleigh] That last
phone call happened
563
00:28:29,974 --> 00:28:31,108
right about the time
564
00:28:31,175 --> 00:28:33,677
authorities
think that Conrad died.
565
00:28:33,712 --> 00:28:36,113
That means that Michelle
was probably
566
00:28:36,180 --> 00:28:38,982
on the phone with him
as he passed.
567
00:28:39,918 --> 00:28:43,987
One would wonder why Conrad
did not delete
568
00:28:44,055 --> 00:28:46,490
the text messages with Michelle.
569
00:28:46,524 --> 00:28:49,893
He deleted everything else.
Why not Michelle?
570
00:28:49,928 --> 00:28:53,831
[Scott] I truly believe that
that was left intentionally.
571
00:28:53,865 --> 00:28:55,966
I mean, he didn't leave the
text thread with his mother.
572
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:57,101
He didn't leave the text thread
573
00:28:57,135 --> 00:28:58,202
with his sisters or his father.
574
00:28:58,269 --> 00:29:00,571
He just left
the text thread with Michelle.
575
00:29:00,638 --> 00:29:02,973
Did he want evidence
that somehow
576
00:29:03,007 --> 00:29:07,678
she encouraged him
to kill himself? Maybe.
577
00:29:07,745 --> 00:29:09,012
And despite their suspicions,
578
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:10,748
the detectives
still don't wanna bring up
579
00:29:10,815 --> 00:29:13,984
the text messages
with Conrad's family.
580
00:29:14,018 --> 00:29:15,319
[Glenn]
For quite a period of time,
581
00:29:15,353 --> 00:29:17,054
the Roys were
kind of kept in the dark
582
00:29:17,088 --> 00:29:18,922
purposely from us
583
00:29:18,957 --> 00:29:21,825
in regards to the evidence
we had in front of us.
584
00:29:21,893 --> 00:29:24,762
We felt it was necessary
to keep it
585
00:29:24,829 --> 00:29:27,231
as quiet as possible
because we didn't know
586
00:29:27,298 --> 00:29:29,566
if it was gonna be
criminally charged or not.
587
00:29:32,737 --> 00:29:34,772
After he passed,
588
00:29:34,839 --> 00:29:37,174
all summer long
she sent me messages
589
00:29:37,241 --> 00:29:38,976
telling me how much she loved me
590
00:29:39,043 --> 00:29:40,944
and thought the world of me.
591
00:29:40,979 --> 00:29:44,181
[dramatic music playing]
592
00:29:47,218 --> 00:29:48,786
She really comforted me.
593
00:29:48,853 --> 00:29:51,155
Like made me feel
like I was the best
594
00:29:51,189 --> 00:29:53,991
I could
because he confided in her.
595
00:29:54,959 --> 00:29:57,694
I even told her,
"I'm so glad that my son
596
00:29:57,729 --> 00:30:00,063
had someone like you
in his life that,
597
00:30:00,131 --> 00:30:01,565
you know, really cared
about him."
598
00:30:01,633 --> 00:30:03,000
[dramatic music playing]
599
00:30:03,067 --> 00:30:05,669
So even as Michelle
was comforting Lynn,
600
00:30:05,736 --> 00:30:08,872
some of Conrad's friends
felt like Michelle
601
00:30:08,940 --> 00:30:12,075
was making herself
a bigger part of Conrad's life
602
00:30:12,143 --> 00:30:13,744
than she really was.
603
00:30:13,811 --> 00:30:15,879
We're reading Facebook posts,
604
00:30:15,947 --> 00:30:19,917
and that's when I came
across Michelle's post,
605
00:30:19,951 --> 00:30:22,186
and it was like,
"I love you so much.
606
00:30:22,220 --> 00:30:25,222
You were there for me.
You were my rock.
607
00:30:25,289 --> 00:30:27,090
I'm sorry
I couldn't be yours."
608
00:30:27,158 --> 00:30:28,025
We were all like,
609
00:30:28,126 --> 00:30:29,927
"Did everybody see
like this girl's post?
610
00:30:29,961 --> 00:30:31,995
Like who is this crazy girl?"
611
00:30:32,030 --> 00:30:33,530
And then that's when I was like,
612
00:30:33,565 --> 00:30:36,900
"That's the girl Michelle
from the funeral."
613
00:30:36,968 --> 00:30:40,137
At Conrad's funeral, Michelle
was making a big scene.
614
00:30:40,171 --> 00:30:43,473
She's just crying,
sobbing quite loudly.
615
00:30:44,275 --> 00:30:45,976
We still call her
the "grieving widow"
616
00:30:46,043 --> 00:30:48,111
to this day.
617
00:30:48,179 --> 00:30:50,948
During the bereavement
process or at a funeral,
618
00:30:50,982 --> 00:30:53,851
when the death is incredibly
emotionally charged, right,
619
00:30:53,918 --> 00:30:58,088
it can be a way to get a bit
more quick type of attention.
620
00:31:01,092 --> 00:31:04,027
[Ashleigh] Two months
after Conrad's death,
621
00:31:04,062 --> 00:31:07,130
Michelle Carter organizes
a baseball charity event
622
00:31:07,198 --> 00:31:10,000
in Plainville called
Homers for Conrad.
623
00:31:10,067 --> 00:31:12,603
And a lot of people were there
taking pictures
624
00:31:12,871 --> 00:31:14,771
and posting them on Facebook.
625
00:31:14,806 --> 00:31:17,174
We see more Facebook posts
and see Michelle
626
00:31:17,208 --> 00:31:19,509
had come up with the idea to do
627
00:31:19,544 --> 00:31:21,812
a fundraising
softball tournament
628
00:31:21,879 --> 00:31:25,515
with the proceeds going
to help in suicide prevention.
629
00:31:25,550 --> 00:31:27,718
[Camdyn] My family,
we had a team.
630
00:31:27,752 --> 00:31:30,888
Conrad's best friend Tom and
his teammates all had a team.
631
00:31:30,955 --> 00:31:34,124
Then there's like
some of Michelle friends.
632
00:31:34,158 --> 00:31:36,994
The strange thing
about that is Michelle
633
00:31:37,028 --> 00:31:41,565
organized it for her hometown
instead of Conrad's
634
00:31:41,599 --> 00:31:43,934
hometown which is an hour away.
635
00:31:45,536 --> 00:31:47,905
One thing nobody realized
at the time
636
00:31:47,972 --> 00:31:52,976
is that the detectives
were actually there watching.
637
00:31:53,044 --> 00:31:55,612
[man] The main purpose of me
being there was I placed
638
00:31:55,647 --> 00:31:58,048
an undercover phone
call into Michelle phone
639
00:31:58,115 --> 00:32:00,717
when she was in plain view
at Homers for Conrad.
640
00:32:00,785 --> 00:32:02,786
We knew from subscriber
information
641
00:32:02,853 --> 00:32:05,956
from the phone company that
it was in her mother's name.
642
00:32:05,990 --> 00:32:08,558
So we couldn't take the chance
that we were actually
643
00:32:08,593 --> 00:32:11,461
reading messages from someone
that wasn't Michelle.
644
00:32:12,630 --> 00:32:14,331
And she answered the phone.
645
00:32:14,365 --> 00:32:16,800
So, at that point,
we've checked another box.
646
00:32:16,867 --> 00:32:18,936
This is Michelle Carter on
the other side of this phone.
647
00:32:19,003 --> 00:32:21,505
[dramatic music playing]
648
00:32:24,042 --> 00:32:27,577
Detective Sergeant Patello
and I went to her school
649
00:32:27,679 --> 00:32:29,813
in the Plainville area
to try and locate her
650
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:32,015
to have a quick
conversation with her,
651
00:32:32,083 --> 00:32:34,551
but also our main goal
that day was to retrieve
652
00:32:34,786 --> 00:32:37,955
her phone for the...
For forensic analysis.
653
00:32:38,022 --> 00:32:39,923
We had brought
a handheld recorder.
654
00:32:39,958 --> 00:32:42,259
And when we started
talking to her,
655
00:32:42,293 --> 00:32:45,362
let her know that we
were recording the interview.
656
00:32:45,429 --> 00:32:48,565
[detective speaking]
657
00:32:54,973 --> 00:32:55,906
[Michelle speaking]
658
00:32:55,973 --> 00:32:59,109
[detective speaking]
659
00:33:02,246 --> 00:33:05,048
[Michelle speaking]
660
00:33:05,116 --> 00:33:05,782
[detective] Mmm-hmm.
661
00:33:05,850 --> 00:33:09,186
[Michelle speaking]
662
00:33:17,795 --> 00:33:20,163
So right off the bat,
they know she's not being
663
00:33:20,198 --> 00:33:21,965
entirely truthful with them.
664
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:23,300
And they present
her with a warrant.
665
00:33:23,334 --> 00:33:26,536
They confiscate her phone,
a phone that has God knows
666
00:33:26,604 --> 00:33:28,038
how much evidence on it.
667
00:33:28,072 --> 00:33:31,008
It is a shame that
they only had an audio
668
00:33:31,075 --> 00:33:34,177
recording of this happening
because you can really
669
00:33:34,212 --> 00:33:36,880
only imagine
the look on her face.
670
00:33:36,947 --> 00:33:39,049
The plan the next day
was for the family
671
00:33:39,083 --> 00:33:42,085
to contact me so
we could speak with Michelle.
672
00:33:42,153 --> 00:33:44,654
Ultimately, they contacted
and said that they obtained
673
00:33:44,689 --> 00:33:47,057
a lawyer and they wouldn't
be speaking with us.
674
00:33:49,093 --> 00:33:51,495
[Ted] Police did
what is called an extraction
675
00:33:51,562 --> 00:33:52,829
of the phone.
676
00:33:52,831 --> 00:33:55,532
It's where they use a device
that pulls everything out,
677
00:33:55,566 --> 00:33:57,868
even stuff that's been deleted.
678
00:33:57,902 --> 00:34:01,204
And about 60,000 items
are pulled from her phone,
679
00:34:01,239 --> 00:34:06,510
texts, videos, messages,
years of data.
680
00:34:06,577 --> 00:34:09,012
At first, Conrad would text her
681
00:34:09,046 --> 00:34:11,148
about his feelings
of wanting to kill himself,
682
00:34:11,182 --> 00:34:14,584
and Michelle often tried
to dissuade him
683
00:34:14,652 --> 00:34:17,421
from doing that or thinking
those things.
684
00:34:29,801 --> 00:34:32,035
There's certainly
a point in time where it went
685
00:34:32,070 --> 00:34:38,442
from nurturing and caring
to malicious and mean.
686
00:34:40,111 --> 00:34:41,812
[Ted] She tells him,
"Why don't you drink
687
00:34:41,879 --> 00:34:43,847
some bleach?
688
00:34:43,881 --> 00:34:46,116
Why don't you hang yourself?"
689
00:34:46,150 --> 00:34:48,819
She really starts pushing Conrad
690
00:34:48,886 --> 00:34:51,354
and really starts gnawing
at him that,
691
00:34:51,422 --> 00:34:54,057
"Hey, you gotta get this done
and you gotta get it
692
00:34:54,091 --> 00:34:55,158
done now."
693
00:35:02,567 --> 00:35:05,168
[Maryclare] They come up
with the water pump idea.
694
00:35:06,070 --> 00:35:10,273
And not only does she help him
with all of that,
695
00:35:10,308 --> 00:35:12,843
she explains to him,
"Oh, it'll be easy.
696
00:35:12,910 --> 00:35:14,845
All you have to do
is get into your car.
697
00:35:14,912 --> 00:35:16,279
It's gonna take
about 20 minutes.
698
00:35:16,314 --> 00:35:17,547
It'll be painless.
699
00:35:17,582 --> 00:35:19,182
It'll be quick."
700
00:35:20,785 --> 00:35:23,620
I had must have read over
a thousand text messages.
701
00:35:23,654 --> 00:35:25,055
Scott did the same.
702
00:35:25,122 --> 00:35:27,757
We all felt pretty
strongly that without her
703
00:35:27,792 --> 00:35:31,128
interaction in his life,
he truly would still be here.
704
00:35:31,195 --> 00:35:35,031
Pretty much everybody
who read the texts all agreed
705
00:35:35,065 --> 00:35:37,868
that what we're reading
was pretty disturbing.
706
00:35:37,935 --> 00:35:40,904
There was no doubt
that it was wrong,
707
00:35:40,938 --> 00:35:43,273
but the question became
was it only morally wrong
708
00:35:43,340 --> 00:35:44,574
or is it criminally wrong?
709
00:35:49,313 --> 00:35:50,146
[dramatic music playing]
710
00:35:50,148 --> 00:35:51,982
Three months
into this investigation
711
00:35:52,016 --> 00:35:55,051
and the police pretty much
know that Michelle Carter
712
00:35:55,086 --> 00:35:58,121
encouraged Conrad Roy
to take his own life.
713
00:35:58,156 --> 00:36:01,224
But it's no slam dunk,
and so they can't rush
714
00:36:01,292 --> 00:36:02,492
into this arrest.
715
00:36:04,028 --> 00:36:05,362
I'm Dana Curhan.
716
00:36:05,429 --> 00:36:06,763
I'm an appellate lawyer.
717
00:36:06,830 --> 00:36:08,498
I was brought into this case
to work
718
00:36:08,566 --> 00:36:11,601
on some of the pretrial motions.
719
00:36:11,636 --> 00:36:15,038
There are probably about
30 states that have a statute
720
00:36:15,105 --> 00:36:18,942
that prohibits encouraging
somebody to commit suicide.
721
00:36:18,976 --> 00:36:21,111
Massachusetts
is not one of them.
722
00:36:21,178 --> 00:36:24,114
So the problem
is they look and there's no...
723
00:36:24,181 --> 00:36:26,950
There's no specific statute
telling them
724
00:36:26,984 --> 00:36:28,451
that this is prohibited.
725
00:36:30,288 --> 00:36:34,191
So despite the fact
that there is no law,
726
00:36:34,258 --> 00:36:36,726
in February 2015,
a grand jury decides
727
00:36:36,794 --> 00:36:41,064
to indict Michelle Carter
on involuntary manslaughter.
728
00:36:41,131 --> 00:36:43,033
After the grand jury
indicted that afternoon,
729
00:36:43,067 --> 00:36:44,935
it was a Thursday afternoon,
I had to sit down
730
00:36:45,002 --> 00:36:47,204
with the Roy family
for the very first time
731
00:36:47,271 --> 00:36:49,839
and put those text messages
in front of them.
732
00:36:49,874 --> 00:36:52,509
And it was heartbreaking.
733
00:36:55,246 --> 00:36:57,914
[Lynn] It wasn't real.
734
00:36:57,949 --> 00:37:01,284
I don't know.
I just couldn't believe it.
735
00:37:01,352 --> 00:37:03,853
I don't know what it's like
to have someone go
736
00:37:03,888 --> 00:37:06,022
in your mind like that.
737
00:37:07,124 --> 00:37:11,928
But she went into a
vulnerable young man's mind
738
00:37:11,963 --> 00:37:17,067
and twisted his mind thinking
that he was better off
739
00:37:17,101 --> 00:37:19,269
not being here.
740
00:37:20,571 --> 00:37:25,008
She manipulated my son
in the worst way possible.
741
00:37:27,645 --> 00:37:29,846
I just remember
like thinking like,
742
00:37:29,913 --> 00:37:33,516
"Why?" I just don't know why
anyone would want like
743
00:37:33,584 --> 00:37:35,418
my brother to pass away.
744
00:37:37,722 --> 00:37:40,523
Michelle Carter turns herself
in the next day,
745
00:37:40,591 --> 00:37:43,226
and she's released
on $2,500 bond,
746
00:37:43,261 --> 00:37:48,531
and she's ordered not to text
anyone except her parents.
747
00:37:48,599 --> 00:37:50,233
And over the next couple
of months,
748
00:37:50,268 --> 00:37:53,069
this story takes off.
749
00:37:53,137 --> 00:37:54,604
A woman from Massachusetts
750
00:37:54,705 --> 00:37:56,573
allegedly encouraging
her boyfriend
751
00:37:56,641 --> 00:37:59,175
to commit suicide
through text messages.
752
00:37:59,210 --> 00:38:01,077
She was an honor roll
student previously
753
00:38:01,145 --> 00:38:03,113
at King Philip High School.
754
00:38:03,147 --> 00:38:05,548
[woman] The state plans
to enter more than 20,000
755
00:38:05,616 --> 00:38:07,117
texts as evidence.
756
00:38:07,151 --> 00:38:10,186
[dramatic music playing]
757
00:38:12,356 --> 00:38:16,559
[man] Good morning.
Today is June 9th, 2015.
758
00:38:16,694 --> 00:38:19,029
[Ashleigh] With her parents
watching, Michelle Carter
759
00:38:19,096 --> 00:38:21,831
pleads not guilty
and she remains on bond.
760
00:38:21,899 --> 00:38:24,601
And her attorneys
make it crystal clear
761
00:38:24,869 --> 00:38:27,904
that they are going to fight
this until the end.
762
00:38:27,971 --> 00:38:30,840
We are dealing
strictly with words.
763
00:38:30,908 --> 00:38:33,143
We have a person
who was not present
764
00:38:33,177 --> 00:38:37,047
when he made his own voluntary
decision to take his own life,
765
00:38:37,114 --> 00:38:40,583
and she did not do
anything physical in nature.
766
00:38:40,818 --> 00:38:43,186
Can you tell somebody
to kill themselves,
767
00:38:43,253 --> 00:38:46,623
and is that First Amendment
or is that a crime?
768
00:38:46,657 --> 00:38:49,559
And that became a huge debate.
769
00:38:49,593 --> 00:38:53,897
[Jan] Michelle was portrayed
as this evil villain.
770
00:38:53,931 --> 00:38:57,767
She garnered
no sympathy in the public.
771
00:38:57,802 --> 00:39:01,304
Michelle, unfortunately,
made a face.
772
00:39:01,339 --> 00:39:03,573
Just made a momentary face.
773
00:39:03,874 --> 00:39:07,844
And that image was captured
and has become symbolic
774
00:39:07,878 --> 00:39:09,012
of her.
775
00:39:09,079 --> 00:39:10,647
Everybody looked
at that and said,
776
00:39:10,681 --> 00:39:12,982
"Oh, there's a girl
who just doesn't care."
777
00:39:13,017 --> 00:39:15,819
And I don't think
that was particularly fair.
778
00:39:15,886 --> 00:39:17,187
[reporter]
She's a terrible person.
779
00:39:17,221 --> 00:39:19,589
I can't believe how indifferent
780
00:39:19,857 --> 00:39:20,623
she was to his life.
781
00:39:20,691 --> 00:39:22,258
It's disgusting.
782
00:39:22,293 --> 00:39:26,563
[Ted] She became sort
of this national pariah.
783
00:39:26,797 --> 00:39:29,866
I mean, people just hated her.
784
00:39:29,900 --> 00:39:30,934
To me, she's evil.
785
00:39:30,968 --> 00:39:33,236
Why can't she be held
accountable when she was
786
00:39:33,303 --> 00:39:35,071
sitting there purposely
texting this young man
787
00:39:35,106 --> 00:39:37,640
and telling him to kill himself?
788
00:39:37,708 --> 00:39:41,544
Because this case is
so unique and unprecedented,
789
00:39:41,579 --> 00:39:43,880
it is really hard to say
what it's gonna take
790
00:39:43,914 --> 00:39:45,081
to convict Michelle.
791
00:39:45,116 --> 00:39:47,083
The whole world is watching.
792
00:39:49,887 --> 00:39:52,889
On June 5th, 2017,
793
00:39:52,923 --> 00:39:54,991
Michelle Carter's trial begins.
794
00:39:55,058 --> 00:39:57,093
[man] Michelle Carter
from Plainville,
795
00:39:57,128 --> 00:40:01,164
Mass on trial, accused
of involuntary manslaughter.
796
00:40:01,198 --> 00:40:04,567
This is one of the first
trials to rely on text
797
00:40:04,802 --> 00:40:07,270
and a digital trail
that teens leave.
798
00:40:07,304 --> 00:40:08,705
And, in many ways,
799
00:40:08,739 --> 00:40:11,374
it's setting
a precedent for future trials.
800
00:40:12,309 --> 00:40:14,844
[Ted] The charges
in the case are read.
801
00:40:14,879 --> 00:40:17,514
[judge speaking]
802
00:40:17,548 --> 00:40:21,551
And the defense then calls
Michelle Carter to the stand.
803
00:40:21,618 --> 00:40:24,854
This is the first time anyone
has heard from her.
804
00:40:24,889 --> 00:40:27,557
[judge speaking]
805
00:40:32,530 --> 00:40:35,965
[Michelle speaking]
806
00:40:36,033 --> 00:40:39,035
[judge] Has anyone promised
you anything or threatened you
807
00:40:39,102 --> 00:40:44,140
in any way to make you forego
your right to a jury trial?
808
00:40:44,175 --> 00:40:45,809
No.
809
00:40:45,843 --> 00:40:47,177
Michelle Carter elected to waive
810
00:40:47,244 --> 00:40:48,244
her right to a jury.
811
00:40:48,278 --> 00:40:51,581
She gets to say,
"I want you, the judge,
812
00:40:51,782 --> 00:40:53,983
to be the decider
of the facts and the law,
813
00:40:54,051 --> 00:40:55,919
and ultimately make the decision
814
00:40:55,986 --> 00:40:57,187
on whether she's guilty
or not."
815
00:40:57,254 --> 00:40:58,120
I think when
816
00:40:58,222 --> 00:41:00,056
you have a jury looking
at a case,
817
00:41:00,123 --> 00:41:01,891
they do look
at moral culpability
818
00:41:01,926 --> 00:41:04,494
and not necessarily
legal culpability.
819
00:41:04,528 --> 00:41:07,564
The advantage of going before
a judge without
820
00:41:07,598 --> 00:41:11,935
a jury is a judge can make
a dispassionate decision.
821
00:41:12,002 --> 00:41:14,537
Once that was decided,
rather than starting
822
00:41:14,605 --> 00:41:16,539
to select the jury,
the judge said, "Okay,
823
00:41:16,607 --> 00:41:18,842
tomorrow morning
we'll start hearing evidence."
824
00:41:18,876 --> 00:41:20,510
[Ashleigh] This was riveting.
825
00:41:20,544 --> 00:41:23,112
No one knew
what was gonna happen.
826
00:41:25,049 --> 00:41:28,017
[dramatic music playing]
827
00:41:28,085 --> 00:41:30,119
Who would do this and why?
828
00:41:30,154 --> 00:41:32,155
We suggest the evidence
will show that the defendant
829
00:41:32,222 --> 00:41:35,492
was a very needy person
who craved attention
830
00:41:35,559 --> 00:41:37,260
from anyone, quite frankly.
831
00:41:37,294 --> 00:41:41,231
[Ted] The prosecution goes
right at Michelle Carter.
832
00:41:41,298 --> 00:41:45,268
Here's this young woman
who not only wanted
833
00:41:45,302 --> 00:41:49,739
her boyfriend to kill himself
but she wanted to ride
834
00:41:49,773 --> 00:41:52,008
the wave of what
would come after that,
835
00:41:52,042 --> 00:41:54,511
where she would get attention,
836
00:41:54,578 --> 00:41:56,713
people would feel bad for her,
837
00:41:56,780 --> 00:42:00,984
and her friends who may
have ignored her before
838
00:42:01,051 --> 00:42:03,953
might actually
give her some love.
839
00:42:03,988 --> 00:42:05,121
[Dr. Robi]
Who thinks like that?
840
00:42:05,188 --> 00:42:06,990
A normal person doesn't think,
841
00:42:07,057 --> 00:42:10,593
"You must die in order
for me to be popular."
842
00:42:10,794 --> 00:42:12,562
I think she had a love
of herself
843
00:42:12,596 --> 00:42:14,130
beyond everybody else.
844
00:42:14,164 --> 00:42:18,701
I think it was a very
disturbed form of narcissism.
845
00:42:18,736 --> 00:42:20,904
She put him
in the car that night.
846
00:42:20,938 --> 00:42:24,574
I think the prosecution
really pushed this as,
847
00:42:24,608 --> 00:42:26,409
you know,
this is this evil person.
848
00:42:26,443 --> 00:42:29,045
We don't know why she would do
a thing like this.
849
00:42:29,079 --> 00:42:32,148
And she needs to be punished.
850
00:42:33,884 --> 00:42:36,519
Your Honor, this case
is a suicide case.
851
00:42:36,554 --> 00:42:40,490
It is a suicide,
it is not a homicide.
852
00:42:40,557 --> 00:42:42,892
[Ted Daniel] The defense
really stuck with two arguments.
853
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:47,597
She may have been repugnant and
what she did may have been reprehensible,
854
00:42:47,631 --> 00:42:48,898
but it wasn't criminal.
855
00:42:48,966 --> 00:42:52,235
And they also really delved
into Conrad's state of mind,
856
00:42:52,302 --> 00:42:55,705
and they looked at his
past mental health history.
857
00:42:55,772 --> 00:42:59,709
A long, long history
of suicidal...
858
00:42:59,711 --> 00:43:03,613
suicidality, suicide attempts,
suicidal ideation,
859
00:43:03,647 --> 00:43:08,851
finally caused,
caused his own death.
860
00:43:08,919 --> 00:43:12,221
[Dana Curhan] He was the one
that set this whole scheme into motion
861
00:43:12,256 --> 00:43:15,592
and drove himself there and
put himself in the vehicle,
862
00:43:15,659 --> 00:43:18,261
and essentially
he took his own life.
863
00:43:21,165 --> 00:43:27,070
[Lynn Roy] The prosecutors wanted me
to talk about what type of person he was,
864
00:43:27,137 --> 00:43:29,539
what he had to live for.
865
00:43:29,940 --> 00:43:31,941
Of course, with your child,
866
00:43:31,975 --> 00:43:35,411
you're always going to think
they're like the best thing in the world.
867
00:43:35,479 --> 00:43:38,448
Well, he really was.
[chuckles softly]
868
00:43:38,482 --> 00:43:40,083
He just...
869
00:43:41,752 --> 00:43:45,922
took whatever was given to him,
so he really didn't complain much.
870
00:43:45,956 --> 00:43:49,926
- He did the best he could.
- Was he close to his sisters?
871
00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:51,427
[Lynn] Very much.
872
00:43:53,097 --> 00:43:54,597
[Ashleigh Banfield] As Lynn
testifies,
873
00:43:54,632 --> 00:43:58,101
she mentions her son's
suicide attempt back in 2012.
874
00:43:58,168 --> 00:44:02,305
And she also mentions the friend
of Conrad who saved him at the time.
875
00:44:02,372 --> 00:44:04,707
[Maryclare Flynn] Did you find
out that he had told somebody
876
00:44:04,741 --> 00:44:05,775
that he had done that?
877
00:44:05,842 --> 00:44:07,944
- Yes.
- [Flynn] And what did you learn about that?
878
00:44:07,978 --> 00:44:10,113
-[defense] Objection.
-[Judge Lawrence Moniz] Sustained.
879
00:44:10,180 --> 00:44:12,915
[Banfield] The defense actually
succeeded in stopping Lynn,
880
00:44:12,949 --> 00:44:15,418
from telling the judge
about Aryanna Taylor,
881
00:44:15,452 --> 00:44:18,655
who saved Conrad
on his first attempt.
882
00:44:18,722 --> 00:44:22,158
[Taylor] They were comparing the time
I called Lynn, who called the ambulance
883
00:44:22,192 --> 00:44:26,796
for when Conrad consumed the
over-the-counter medications.
884
00:44:26,863 --> 00:44:29,298
At the time, I really
didn't know what was going on,
885
00:44:29,332 --> 00:44:32,001
but just in case,
I got him help.
886
00:44:32,069 --> 00:44:34,370
And Michelle knew exactly
what was happening
887
00:44:34,405 --> 00:44:37,740
and she did nothing to help him.
888
00:44:37,808 --> 00:44:43,846
Aryanna's actions in 2012 were very
different than Michelle's actions in 2014.
889
00:44:43,881 --> 00:44:47,583
And unfortunately, Michelle
was the only one who knew
890
00:44:47,618 --> 00:44:50,553
that Conrad was suicidal
that second time.
891
00:44:50,620 --> 00:44:55,558
In July of 2014, did you have any
concerns about his mental health?
892
00:44:57,294 --> 00:45:01,064
[Lynn] I knew he was a little depressed,
but I thought it was, he was doing...
893
00:45:02,132 --> 00:45:03,666
great.
894
00:45:03,701 --> 00:45:08,271
I mean, he just, you know,
graduated from high school,
895
00:45:08,305 --> 00:45:11,007
got his captain's license. I thought
everything was moving forward,
896
00:45:11,041 --> 00:45:13,543
not backwards. So...
897
00:45:14,778 --> 00:45:18,247
[Rebecca Berry] Some people are
very good at internalizing that pain,
898
00:45:18,315 --> 00:45:21,751
and putting on a different
type of front, let's say.
899
00:45:21,785 --> 00:45:24,687
Many will say, "I don't
want to burden my mother.
900
00:45:24,722 --> 00:45:29,559
I don't want to let my friends in on my pain,
because I think that they can't handle it."
901
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:32,061
[Lynn] We had a really
close relationship.
902
00:45:32,129 --> 00:45:34,464
But he held a lot inside.
903
00:45:35,566 --> 00:45:37,100
Because he didn't
want to hurt me.
904
00:45:40,571 --> 00:45:42,371
He was trying to protect me.
905
00:45:45,909 --> 00:45:47,610
[sighs softly]
906
00:45:47,677 --> 00:45:48,945
[Joseph Cataldo] He never
complained to you
907
00:45:49,012 --> 00:45:52,081
- about a girl by the name of Michelle Carter, did he?
- No.
908
00:45:52,149 --> 00:45:55,318
[Cataldo] He never told you that
anybody was trying to convince him
909
00:45:55,352 --> 00:45:57,453
- to do something he didn't want to do?
- No.
910
00:45:57,488 --> 00:45:59,055
[Cataldo] Nothing further,
Your Honor.
911
00:45:59,089 --> 00:46:00,890
[Judge Moniz] Thank you very
much. Please step down, Miss Roy,
912
00:46:00,957 --> 00:46:02,525
thank you very much
for your assistance.
913
00:46:03,494 --> 00:46:04,693
Does the Commonwealth
have another today?
914
00:46:04,695 --> 00:46:05,995
[Katie Rayburn] I do, Your
Honor, thank you very much.
915
00:46:06,029 --> 00:46:08,598
[Banfield] The defense didn't
really go after Lynn hard,
916
00:46:08,632 --> 00:46:12,001
because no one wants to be
seen as attacking a grieving mom.
917
00:46:12,035 --> 00:46:15,805
But then, Conrad's sister
Camdyn Roy took the stand
918
00:46:15,839 --> 00:46:20,009
and she testified about her
experiences, the night her brother died.
919
00:46:20,043 --> 00:46:22,011
[Flynn] Did he seem upset
to you?
920
00:46:22,045 --> 00:46:26,149
No, he was just like,
"I'm going to Aryanna's. Bye."
921
00:46:26,183 --> 00:46:28,851
- [Flynn] Was that the last time you saw your brother?
- Yeah.
922
00:46:28,919 --> 00:46:33,289
That night, I got a text
from Michelle Carter.
923
00:46:40,097 --> 00:46:45,168
And she was saying, "I'm Conrad's
girlfriend now. Do you know where he is?"
924
00:46:46,136 --> 00:46:50,840
[Dr. Robi Ludwig] So that breezy
text with the IDK and the ha, ha, ha,
925
00:46:50,874 --> 00:46:54,377
came in after Michelle was
on the phone with Conrad
926
00:46:54,411 --> 00:46:56,345
right around the time
that he died.
927
00:46:56,413 --> 00:47:01,050
And when you think about it in those
terms, it really makes your skin crawl.
928
00:47:01,084 --> 00:47:04,020
[Flynn] Michelle tried to say she
didn't really know where he was.
929
00:47:04,087 --> 00:47:05,755
Which of course,
we knew that wasn't true
930
00:47:05,822 --> 00:47:07,924
but she was trying to create
an alibi for herself,
931
00:47:07,958 --> 00:47:10,526
again showing her state of mind.
932
00:47:10,561 --> 00:47:13,129
[Camdyn] Now we can just see
how it was just
933
00:47:13,163 --> 00:47:16,199
her, like, manipulating
all of us, basically.
934
00:47:17,568 --> 00:47:18,901
[Banfield] Next up
for the prosecution
935
00:47:18,969 --> 00:47:21,771
is a young man
named Tom Gammell,
936
00:47:21,838 --> 00:47:25,341
and he's one of the people
who's closest to Conrad.
937
00:47:25,409 --> 00:47:29,512
We determined that Tom Gammell
was best friends with Conrad.
938
00:47:29,579 --> 00:47:33,950
That they had known each other throughout
their lives, played baseball together.
939
00:47:33,984 --> 00:47:36,619
[Scott Gordon] Tom said, he really
didn't know anything about Michelle,
940
00:47:36,653 --> 00:47:40,590
or that there was even any
type of relationship that existed.
941
00:47:40,824 --> 00:47:43,192
[Flynn] So, Tom became important
because of the baseball tournament,
942
00:47:43,260 --> 00:47:44,727
Homers for Conrad.
943
00:47:44,794 --> 00:47:46,529
[Rayburn] Is there
any contact information
944
00:47:46,596 --> 00:47:48,598
- for who's running this Homers for Conrad?
- Yes.
945
00:47:48,665 --> 00:47:51,167
- [Rayburn] And what was the name?
- [Gammell] Michelle.
946
00:47:51,201 --> 00:47:54,103
[Rayburn] Did that name mean
anything to you at that time?
947
00:47:54,137 --> 00:47:55,571
- No.
- [Rayburn] So what did you do?
948
00:47:55,606 --> 00:47:58,174
[Gammell] I contacted her.
949
00:47:58,208 --> 00:48:03,112
The prosecution sought to demonstrate
that Michelle was just focused on herself.
950
00:48:03,146 --> 00:48:06,315
That the event had nothing
to do with Conrad at all,
951
00:48:06,383 --> 00:48:10,052
but more to do with her effort
to be seen as popular.
952
00:48:10,087 --> 00:48:13,055
I was curious as to why the
tournament was being held in Plainville,
953
00:48:13,090 --> 00:48:14,590
and not in Mattapoisett.
954
00:48:14,624 --> 00:48:16,092
Why were you curious about that?
955
00:48:16,159 --> 00:48:19,695
'Cause all of Conrad's family
and friends are from Mattapoisett.
956
00:48:19,763 --> 00:48:21,998
[Rayburn] And how did she
respond to you when you suggested
957
00:48:22,032 --> 00:48:24,767
that maybe it should be moved to be
more convenient for his friends and family?
958
00:48:24,834 --> 00:48:26,502
She wasn't willing to move it.
959
00:48:26,870 --> 00:48:30,973
[Rayburn] On August 27, 2014
at 12:47 p.m.,
960
00:48:31,007 --> 00:48:33,876
do you recall getting a text message that
I actually just sent to the judge but...
961
00:48:33,911 --> 00:48:38,047
"Okay, awesome, thank you! You're
not taking credit for my idea right? Lol."
962
00:48:38,114 --> 00:48:39,649
- Do you recall getting that?
- [Gammell] Yes.
963
00:48:39,716 --> 00:48:45,655
She wanted to make clear that
she was getting credit for all this.
964
00:48:45,722 --> 00:48:48,824
[Flynn] She did not hide anything.
This was really not about Conrad Roy.
965
00:48:48,859 --> 00:48:51,260
She's not even talking about
Conrad Roy any more.
966
00:48:51,328 --> 00:48:54,764
She's talking about what
she's going to get out of it.
967
00:48:54,798 --> 00:48:57,900
- [Rayburn] Now, were there some photographs taken?
- [Gammell] Yes.
968
00:48:57,935 --> 00:49:01,737
And at some point, did Miss Carter
ask that her photograph be taken
969
00:49:01,805 --> 00:49:03,806
- with some of the teams?
- Yes.
970
00:49:03,873 --> 00:49:05,975
[Rayburn] How would you
describe Miss Carter's demeanor
971
00:49:06,009 --> 00:49:07,977
throughout Homers for Conrad?
972
00:49:08,245 --> 00:49:10,613
[Gammell] Um, she seemed
very happy.
973
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:13,983
I remember,
it just seemed, like, off.
974
00:49:14,017 --> 00:49:17,119
'Cause it was supposed to be,
like, honoring Conrad.
975
00:49:17,154 --> 00:49:18,621
And it was just like,
Michelle was like,
976
00:49:18,688 --> 00:49:21,490
laughing and like,
goofing off the whole time.
977
00:49:24,094 --> 00:49:26,796
[Banfield] When the defense
takes over, they really press Tom
978
00:49:26,830 --> 00:49:28,597
about the claims that he'd
never heard of Michelle
979
00:49:28,632 --> 00:49:31,033
before the Homers
for Conrad situation,
980
00:49:31,101 --> 00:49:34,003
and then they produced Facebook
messages to contradict this.
981
00:49:34,037 --> 00:49:39,842
Isn't it true
that on October 10, of 2012,
982
00:49:39,909 --> 00:49:42,144
that Michelle Carter
reached out to you?
983
00:49:42,179 --> 00:49:44,680
And had a Facebook
conversation with you?
984
00:49:44,714 --> 00:49:46,115
[Gammell] I believe so.
985
00:49:46,182 --> 00:49:49,385
[Cataldo] About when Conrad
had tried to kill himself in 2012,
986
00:49:49,452 --> 00:49:52,888
when he was just out of
the hospital in early October.
987
00:49:52,922 --> 00:49:53,723
Okay, yeah.
988
00:49:53,790 --> 00:49:55,624
[Cataldo] And she said, "I know,
989
00:49:55,659 --> 00:50:01,063
but he told me he was going to
kill himself last night. Is he okay?"
990
00:50:01,131 --> 00:50:05,601
So the defense showed that there
was a time when Michelle actively cared
991
00:50:05,702 --> 00:50:07,003
about Conrad's well-being.
992
00:50:07,070 --> 00:50:09,905
And the prosecution
cannot deny this.
993
00:50:09,940 --> 00:50:12,975
It's actually a really good move
by Michelle's defense team.
994
00:50:14,878 --> 00:50:16,545
Then the prosecution pivots
995
00:50:16,613 --> 00:50:18,748
from a person
who barely knows Michelle,
996
00:50:18,815 --> 00:50:21,684
to some people
who know her all too well.
997
00:50:21,751 --> 00:50:28,691
On June 7, the prosecution sets aside
time for some pretty important witnesses,
998
00:50:28,758 --> 00:50:34,063
who let us into Michelle's world,
and those are Michelle's classmates.
999
00:50:34,097 --> 00:50:38,968
The first one to testify
is Alexandra or Ali Ethier.
1000
00:50:39,035 --> 00:50:43,105
Michelle met Ali
at a summer camp.
1001
00:50:43,173 --> 00:50:46,809
And what you find out is, yeah,
they had a text relationship,
1002
00:50:46,843 --> 00:50:48,711
but they didn't really
hang out a lot.
1003
00:50:48,778 --> 00:50:51,313
Other than
camp-related activities,
1004
00:50:51,381 --> 00:50:53,816
had you ever spent time
with Michelle Carter?
1005
00:50:53,850 --> 00:50:55,251
No.
1006
00:50:55,318 --> 00:51:00,556
Prosecutors painted a portrait of
Michelle as this needy teenager,
1007
00:51:00,590 --> 00:51:04,960
who was desperate to improve
her social standing at any cost.
1008
00:51:04,995 --> 00:51:08,564
So, when she began to text you
on July 12, 2014,
1009
00:51:09,466 --> 00:51:11,200
what was your reaction?
1010
00:51:11,267 --> 00:51:12,435
Um...
1011
00:51:12,469 --> 00:51:13,936
I was kind of surprised.
1012
00:51:15,739 --> 00:51:19,675
[Banfield] When Michelle texted
Ali, out of the blue, on July 12,
1013
00:51:19,742 --> 00:51:21,744
it was the same day
that Conrad died.
1014
00:51:21,811 --> 00:51:23,879
And even though
they barely knew each other,
1015
00:51:23,947 --> 00:51:27,083
Michelle is immediately sharing
intimate information with her.
1016
00:51:27,117 --> 00:51:31,187
At the same time
that she is texting Conrad,
1017
00:51:31,221 --> 00:51:36,759
pushing him to kill himself,
Michelle is also texting Ali,
1018
00:51:36,826 --> 00:51:40,162
saying, "Hey, you want to be
good friends? Ha ha ha."
1019
00:51:47,938 --> 00:51:50,840
[Rayburn] Do you remember
the time on July 12, at night,
1020
00:51:50,907 --> 00:51:54,477
where there was inquiry about
whether or not you had a boyfriend,
1021
00:51:54,511 --> 00:51:56,879
- you remember that?
- Yes.
1022
00:51:56,913 --> 00:52:00,249
And you recall whether or not you
asked her if she had a boyfriend?
1023
00:52:00,283 --> 00:52:01,817
Um, yeah.
1024
00:52:01,852 --> 00:52:05,921
[Rayburn] And what does Michelle
Carter send you at 10:21 p.m.?
1025
00:52:05,989 --> 00:52:08,290
[Ethier] "Thank you,
that's nice of you.
1026
00:52:08,325 --> 00:52:10,826
And well, I actually do have
a boyfriend right now,
1027
00:52:10,861 --> 00:52:13,062
but he's going through
a tough time."
1028
00:52:13,129 --> 00:52:14,997
And is there
further information there?
1029
00:52:15,064 --> 00:52:20,536
Again now on...
July 12, 2014, 10:30 at night.
1030
00:52:20,603 --> 00:52:25,374
She says, "Ha ha, yeah. But
idk, he's in a bad place right now."
1031
00:52:26,543 --> 00:52:29,979
[Banfield] At that same time,
10:30 p.m. on July 12,
1032
00:52:30,013 --> 00:52:34,116
while Michelle is texting, "Ha
ha, he's in a bad place," to Ali,
1033
00:52:34,151 --> 00:52:36,185
Conrad has already died.
1034
00:52:36,219 --> 00:52:38,821
And it seems Michelle knew this.
1035
00:52:38,888 --> 00:52:42,625
[Daniel] And then all of a sudden,
the next day, Michelle drops this bomb,
1036
00:52:42,692 --> 00:52:45,761
that Conrad
has committed suicide.
1037
00:52:45,828 --> 00:52:49,632
And Michelle tells Ali that
she was on the phone with him
1038
00:52:49,699 --> 00:52:52,001
at the moment that Conrad died.
1039
00:52:57,974 --> 00:53:01,110
[Rayburn] Can you read
your response back?
1040
00:53:01,177 --> 00:53:04,680
[Ethier] "Honestly, I don't mean
it this in a bad way but I feel like
1041
00:53:04,714 --> 00:53:07,583
you should talk
to someone about it, you know?
1042
00:53:07,650 --> 00:53:10,819
Because I can't really help
considering I don't know you very well,
1043
00:53:10,854 --> 00:53:14,190
and I certainly don't know
the situation very well."
1044
00:53:14,257 --> 00:53:17,993
For Michelle to be telling her
something of that magnitude was,
1045
00:53:18,061 --> 00:53:19,862
was really strange for her.
1046
00:53:19,929 --> 00:53:23,032
And this is part of the
prosecution peeling back the layers,
1047
00:53:23,066 --> 00:53:26,569
that there may be
an ulterior motive here,
1048
00:53:26,603 --> 00:53:29,438
that Michelle was doing this
for attention.
1049
00:53:31,007 --> 00:53:34,443
Then, the defense wants to
humanize Michelle.
1050
00:53:34,477 --> 00:53:37,546
And when they get their chance
to question Ali,
1051
00:53:37,614 --> 00:53:42,418
they ask about a text
that Michelle sent to Ali.
1052
00:53:42,485 --> 00:53:44,920
Wasn't there a text just
three minutes before that,
1053
00:53:44,955 --> 00:53:47,423
where she stated to you,
"Yeah, he told me everything.
1054
00:53:47,490 --> 00:53:49,892
I'm the only one
he told things to,
1055
00:53:49,959 --> 00:53:53,929
which is why I feel so at fault because
I should've gotten him more help.
1056
00:53:53,964 --> 00:53:55,798
I just never thought he would
actually do this."
1057
00:53:55,832 --> 00:53:59,535
- Do you recall that?
- Um, yeah.
1058
00:53:59,537 --> 00:54:03,205
[Banfield] The defence did their best to
spin the content of these text messages
1059
00:54:03,240 --> 00:54:07,009
and try to make it seem like
Michelle really cared about Conrad.
1060
00:54:07,043 --> 00:54:08,944
And that might play well
to a jury's emotions,
1061
00:54:08,979 --> 00:54:13,082
but the question is, was it
going to affect the judge?
1062
00:54:13,116 --> 00:54:17,786
So, please state your full name and
spell your last name for the record.
1063
00:54:17,854 --> 00:54:23,626
Olivia Leigh Mosolgo.
M-O-S-O-L-G-O.
1064
00:54:23,660 --> 00:54:26,729
[Daniel] The prosecution
calls another classmate.
1065
00:54:26,796 --> 00:54:29,632
Livy, like several
of the other witnesses,
1066
00:54:29,666 --> 00:54:33,669
tells the court, "Yeah, I knew Michelle,
but we weren't really that close."
1067
00:54:33,736 --> 00:54:37,873
But she knew that Michelle has
been dealing with mental health issues.
1068
00:54:37,940 --> 00:54:42,578
At the age of 14, Michelle was
given Prozac, to deal with depression.
1069
00:54:42,612 --> 00:54:45,481
She expressed having anxiety.
1070
00:54:45,548 --> 00:54:48,817
[Daniel] Livy did explain that
Michelle had confided in her
1071
00:54:48,885 --> 00:54:54,123
some serious information about her
life. That she had an eating disorder.
1072
00:54:54,157 --> 00:54:57,793
[Flynn] When you say eating disorder, did
you ever see her weight go up and down?
1073
00:54:57,827 --> 00:54:58,794
Yes.
1074
00:54:58,828 --> 00:54:59,962
[Flynn] Now, at some point,
1075
00:55:00,330 --> 00:55:02,164
- did that affect her ability to play softball?
- Yes.
1076
00:55:02,231 --> 00:55:04,066
[Flynn] And your call,
what it was that
1077
00:55:04,100 --> 00:55:06,035
she could not play
on the softball team with you?
1078
00:55:06,102 --> 00:55:08,437
I believe it was sophomore year.
1079
00:55:08,504 --> 00:55:09,938
[Jan Ransom]
Michelle struggled,
1080
00:55:09,973 --> 00:55:14,810
and she had even been placed into
a psychiatric facility for some time,
1081
00:55:14,844 --> 00:55:17,012
in the month
before Conrad's death.
1082
00:55:17,047 --> 00:55:20,949
[Ludwig] Michelle suffered
from anorexia nervosa,
1083
00:55:20,983 --> 00:55:25,054
which usually means that there's a
distortion in how someone sees themselves.
1084
00:55:25,088 --> 00:55:27,923
They see themselves
as fat when they're thin.
1085
00:55:27,990 --> 00:55:34,396
And she wants to take control of
that reality, even though it's distorted.
1086
00:55:34,464 --> 00:55:38,867
As Olivia's testimony
continues, the prosecution again
1087
00:55:38,935 --> 00:55:43,772
tries to build on its theory that Michelle
was absolutely desperate for attention.
1088
00:55:43,807 --> 00:55:46,675
Now, when you were back
at high school with Michelle,
1089
00:55:46,743 --> 00:55:50,746
is it fair to say that she expressed to
you that she felt like she had no friends?
1090
00:55:50,813 --> 00:55:54,016
- Yes.
- [Flynn] Could you read that to us please?
1091
00:55:54,083 --> 00:55:56,518
[Mosolgo] "Stop telling me
how wonderful and beautiful I am
1092
00:55:56,553 --> 00:55:57,953
and how I'm such a funny girl,
1093
00:55:58,020 --> 00:56:00,856
because beautiful girls get
invited to parties,
1094
00:56:00,890 --> 00:56:02,858
and their friends call
and wanna hang out."
1095
00:56:02,892 --> 00:56:04,293
"They don't spend
Friday nights alone,
1096
00:56:04,594 --> 00:56:07,863
and funny girls don't lock
themselves in their room to cry."
1097
00:56:07,897 --> 00:56:10,766
[Daniel] You realize Michelle
had a ton of trouble herself.
1098
00:56:10,833 --> 00:56:12,735
We also know
from Livy's testimony
1099
00:56:12,769 --> 00:56:16,372
that Michelle had
a softball friend named Alice,
1100
00:56:16,439 --> 00:56:19,775
prior to her relationship
with Conrad.
1101
00:56:19,842 --> 00:56:23,011
They played on the same team. It was
a travelling team, a competition team.
1102
00:56:23,046 --> 00:56:24,947
Um, and they became
good friends.
1103
00:56:24,981 --> 00:56:27,850
But, at some point
during that relationship,
1104
00:56:27,917 --> 00:56:30,586
Alice, her parents,
specifically her mother
1105
00:56:30,620 --> 00:56:35,824
became concerned with the way
Alice was acting.
1106
00:56:35,859 --> 00:56:38,861
And she texted you that she was
talking to her therapist about Alice?
1107
00:56:38,928 --> 00:56:40,496
- Yes.
- [Flynn] But she also texted you
1108
00:56:40,530 --> 00:56:42,564
that she was obsessed
with Alice.
1109
00:56:42,866 --> 00:56:46,602
Alice's mom worried that
Michelle was a little too needy.
1110
00:56:46,970 --> 00:56:51,507
That she was texting too much and
trying to get too much into Alice's life.
1111
00:56:51,541 --> 00:56:54,943
And that ended up ending that.
1112
00:56:55,011 --> 00:56:56,712
[Cudmore] Michelle was very
upset, very distraught.
1113
00:56:56,746 --> 00:57:01,016
Tried to rekindle that
friendship, um, in different ways,
1114
00:57:01,083 --> 00:57:06,555
Including even sending a letter to
the house with a fake name on it.
1115
00:57:06,689 --> 00:57:09,391
But the mother was smart enough
to pick up on that and intercept it.
1116
00:57:10,927 --> 00:57:12,928
[Bayfield] This whole episode
with Alice seems to be
1117
00:57:12,962 --> 00:57:17,666
like another example of Michelle's
intensity driving people away.
1118
00:57:17,700 --> 00:57:21,770
But on top of that, the prosecution's
getting at something deeper.
1119
00:57:21,838 --> 00:57:26,141
And implying that the whole breakup
with Alice was so upsetting to Michelle,
1120
00:57:26,176 --> 00:57:31,013
that she hoped Conrad's suicide
would actually move Alice to rekindle,
1121
00:57:31,047 --> 00:57:33,649
bring the friendship back.
But, Alice did not,
1122
00:57:33,716 --> 00:57:35,417
and the relationship
never recovered.
1123
00:57:36,119 --> 00:57:40,155
May I direct your attention
to July 20, 2014.
1124
00:57:40,223 --> 00:57:44,927
A text that was sent at 11:59
p.m. If you could read that text.
1125
00:57:44,994 --> 00:57:46,762
[Mosolgo] At the end of
the day, I just really miss him.
1126
00:57:46,796 --> 00:57:50,599
He was who I talked to until 3
a.m., and now he's just gone.
1127
00:57:50,700 --> 00:57:53,969
But his mom called me today, she
found a suicide letter he wrote to me.
1128
00:57:54,003 --> 00:57:56,071
He didn't write one
to anyone else.
1129
00:57:56,138 --> 00:57:58,974
His mom said, I was the most
important person in his life.
1130
00:58:00,743 --> 00:58:03,011
[Lynn] We found out
after he passed,
1131
00:58:03,079 --> 00:58:06,048
she told him to write
a note to her,
1132
00:58:06,082 --> 00:58:09,051
which is even more disturbing.
1133
00:58:09,552 --> 00:58:11,153
The way her mind thinks.
1134
00:58:11,521 --> 00:58:15,057
It's all like, in her plan,
1135
00:58:15,091 --> 00:58:19,394
to just, you know, make off
that she's a grieving girlfriend.
1136
00:58:20,964 --> 00:58:23,131
She definitely loves attention.
1137
00:58:25,268 --> 00:58:29,538
[Banfield] Michelle's attorneys again
tried to flip the script with the texts,
1138
00:58:29,572 --> 00:58:32,274
this time between Michelle
and Olivia.
1139
00:58:32,308 --> 00:58:36,578
And they tried to drive home the idea that
Michelle didn't even need Olivia's attention,
1140
00:58:36,679 --> 00:58:39,047
because she already had it.
1141
00:58:39,115 --> 00:58:43,819
[Cataldo] Fair to say that you and Miss
Carter texted throughout that time period,
1142
00:58:43,853 --> 00:58:46,955
- many times. Fair to say?
- Yes.
1143
00:58:46,990 --> 00:58:49,358
[Cataldo] And sometimes you
would say, "I love you Michelle."
1144
00:58:49,392 --> 00:58:50,559
Isn't that fair to say?
1145
00:58:51,027 --> 00:58:52,594
[Mosolgo] Yes.
1146
00:58:53,930 --> 00:58:58,233
[Ransom] Prosecution next called
Alexandra Lexie Eblan to the stand
1147
00:58:58,268 --> 00:59:02,137
and Lexie described her
relationship with Michelle
1148
00:59:02,171 --> 00:59:04,840
as more of like
a in-school friend.
1149
00:59:04,874 --> 00:59:07,509
[Rayburn] Other than texting,
would you guys ever hang out
1150
00:59:07,544 --> 00:59:09,211
and just like go out
on a Friday night.
1151
00:59:09,278 --> 00:59:11,613
Not usually. I don't...
1152
00:59:11,681 --> 00:59:13,982
I can't remember a time
that we did.
1153
00:59:15,218 --> 00:59:18,253
[Ransom] Another piece of
stunning testimony was
1154
00:59:18,288 --> 00:59:19,855
two days before Conrad's death,
1155
00:59:19,889 --> 00:59:22,791
Lexie said that she received
a text message from Michelle,
1156
00:59:22,825 --> 00:59:25,027
who said he was missing.
1157
00:59:25,094 --> 00:59:29,631
- [Rayburn] What did she say?
- [Eblan] "I'm losing all hope that he's even still alive."
1158
00:59:29,699 --> 00:59:31,867
Do you then just ask,
"Seriously??"
1159
00:59:31,901 --> 00:59:34,536
- [Eblan] Yes.
- And how does she respond, please?
1160
00:59:34,571 --> 00:59:38,273
[Eblan] She says, "Yes, he's been
missing since Wednesday night."
1161
00:59:38,308 --> 00:59:40,709
That's two days before
Conrad died.
1162
00:59:40,776 --> 00:59:42,945
So, Conrad was fine.
1163
00:59:42,979 --> 00:59:45,247
Conrad was not missing
and Michelle knew that,
1164
00:59:45,314 --> 00:59:47,683
because Michelle was texting
with him all throughout the day.
1165
00:59:47,717 --> 00:59:49,751
She completely made it up.
1166
00:59:49,786 --> 00:59:53,755
She had done what we termed in the
investigation, a dry run with her friends,
1167
00:59:53,790 --> 00:59:55,924
to see what kind of reaction
she would get from them,
1168
00:59:55,992 --> 00:59:59,461
as a result of telling them
that he was gone.
1169
00:59:59,495 --> 01:00:01,663
[Flynn] So at that point,
she's getting what she wants.
1170
01:00:01,731 --> 01:00:05,300
That's why she continues to
goad him. In the days following.
1171
01:00:05,335 --> 01:00:09,037
"Why haven't you done it yet?
You said you were going to do it."
1172
01:00:09,072 --> 01:00:11,974
[Camdyn] She already told her friends,
like, "Oh, I don't know where he is."
1173
01:00:12,008 --> 01:00:13,842
Like, they're going to be,
1174
01:00:13,876 --> 01:00:19,081
like, empathetic towards her.
And, like, "Oh Michelle."
1175
01:00:19,148 --> 01:00:21,516
It was like, he was just like
a pawn in her game.
1176
01:00:22,885 --> 01:00:24,786
Prosecution hands
the witness over
1177
01:00:24,821 --> 01:00:26,989
and the defense repeats
it's strategy
1178
01:00:27,023 --> 01:00:31,560
of trying to show that these young
ladies already adored Michelle.
1179
01:00:31,794 --> 01:00:34,896
And they really lean in on the
text messages where Lexie says,
1180
01:00:34,964 --> 01:00:36,898
"Thanks Michelle, love you."
1181
01:00:36,966 --> 01:00:39,201
But you've got to wonder
if that's enough
1182
01:00:39,235 --> 01:00:42,571
to distance Michelle
from the ghastly dry run
1183
01:00:42,638 --> 01:00:44,306
that the prosecution
had pointed out.
1184
01:00:45,141 --> 01:00:48,877
Next up, a powerful witness
for the prosecution.
1185
01:00:48,911 --> 01:00:52,547
Sam Boardman
is about to take the stand.
1186
01:00:52,582 --> 01:00:54,883
[Cudmore] Sam Boardman,
she was the big one.
1187
01:00:54,917 --> 01:00:59,287
And after that is when, you know,
the mood changed at that point.
1188
01:01:03,693 --> 01:01:08,497
The prosecution calls a number
of Michelle's acquaintances
1189
01:01:08,564 --> 01:01:12,267
and they described how they
never considered her a friend.
1190
01:01:12,969 --> 01:01:17,973
It would seem pretty difficult
to be in a position of
1191
01:01:18,040 --> 01:01:20,742
hearing people that you
believe was your friend,
1192
01:01:20,777 --> 01:01:23,512
testifying to the opposite.
1193
01:01:23,579 --> 01:01:29,551
But Michelle just continues to
stare at the witness stand blankly.
1194
01:01:29,585 --> 01:01:32,521
She didn't look sad
or she didn't look hurt.
1195
01:01:32,588 --> 01:01:35,590
She didn't look like she thought
that she did anything wrong.
1196
01:01:38,227 --> 01:01:43,131
[Ransom] Among the witnesses that
were called to testify for the prosecution,
1197
01:01:43,199 --> 01:01:46,802
Samantha Boardman proved to be
the most crucial.
1198
01:01:46,869 --> 01:01:50,706
Out of all the young women that
Michelle had wanted to be her friend,
1199
01:01:50,740 --> 01:01:52,941
she wanted most to be
closest to Sam.
1200
01:01:53,008 --> 01:01:57,979
In her eyes, Sam was,
"Amazing and beautiful."
1201
01:01:58,014 --> 01:02:03,085
But, Samantha testified that
Michelle did not understand boundaries.
1202
01:02:04,854 --> 01:02:07,856
Other times, during
the academic school year,
1203
01:02:07,890 --> 01:02:09,558
during these
thousands of text message,
1204
01:02:09,625 --> 01:02:12,794
where there were times when the defendant
would text you and you would be late,
1205
01:02:12,829 --> 01:02:16,031
- or take a while for you to text back?
- Yes.
1206
01:02:16,065 --> 01:02:21,036
And what, how would her reaction be if
you took a long time to respond to her?
1207
01:02:21,103 --> 01:02:25,440
She would often, repetively,
repeatedly texted me,
1208
01:02:26,075 --> 01:02:27,976
until I responded.
1209
01:02:28,043 --> 01:02:30,278
[Rayburn] And what would you
generally describe,
1210
01:02:30,313 --> 01:02:33,615
sometimes to be the length of the
defendant's text messages to you.
1211
01:02:33,649 --> 01:02:36,418
Very lengthy.
1212
01:02:36,452 --> 01:02:38,820
[Rayburn] I'm going to ask you to
read that text message, please, aloud.
1213
01:02:38,855 --> 01:02:42,691
[Boardman] "Yeah, I have school
friends that all say they love me,
1214
01:02:42,725 --> 01:02:46,828
but that doesn't mean [bleep] when
no one ever asks to hang out with me.
1215
01:02:46,863 --> 01:02:50,065
So when someone actually
makes an effort to talk to me,
1216
01:02:50,132 --> 01:02:54,469
and hang out and stuff, it makes me
so happy and I actually feel important.
1217
01:02:54,537 --> 01:02:57,706
Like when I look back
on my high school career,
1218
01:02:57,740 --> 01:03:02,077
I'm honored to say that I got the
opportunity to be friends with Sam Boardman.
1219
01:03:02,144 --> 01:03:06,848
And I'll be honest, I cried when
you said you wanted to help me,
1220
01:03:06,883 --> 01:03:10,952
and hang out and stuff.
It just meant so much to me.
1221
01:03:11,020 --> 01:03:13,155
Like, I finally
found a friend."
1222
01:03:13,823 --> 01:03:15,891
[Rayburn] For the summer
of 2014,
1223
01:03:15,958 --> 01:03:18,894
did you have any plans to spend
time with her over the summer?
1224
01:03:18,961 --> 01:03:22,664
Um, I believe I saw her
once that summer.
1225
01:03:22,698 --> 01:03:26,735
And probably the most explosive
text that Michelle Carter sent,
1226
01:03:26,769 --> 01:03:30,572
was about the night that
Conrad committed suicide.
1227
01:03:30,639 --> 01:03:33,875
Could you read that for us?
From the defendant to you.
1228
01:03:33,909 --> 01:03:38,013
"I wasn't supposed to let that happen
and now I'm realizing I failed him.
1229
01:03:38,047 --> 01:03:40,949
Sam, his death was my fault. Like
honestly, I could've stopped him.
1230
01:03:40,983 --> 01:03:43,685
I was on the phone and he
got out of the car
1231
01:03:43,719 --> 01:03:46,087
because it was working
and he got scared.
1232
01:03:46,155 --> 01:03:48,557
And I [bleep] told him
to get back in, Sam."
1233
01:03:50,893 --> 01:03:54,262
[Ransom] That moment,
the courtroom fell quiet.
1234
01:03:55,198 --> 01:03:58,333
There was this chill.
1235
01:04:01,571 --> 01:04:03,438
[Lynn] She told him
to get back in.
1236
01:04:05,775 --> 01:04:08,109
I don't know,
I just couldn't believe it.
1237
01:04:09,045 --> 01:04:11,947
In that moment where she said,
"Get back in the truck."
1238
01:04:12,014 --> 01:04:16,885
She could've said like, "Oh
get out." Or something like that.
1239
01:04:16,952 --> 01:04:22,958
And, like, that single sentence
could have, like, saved my brother.
1240
01:04:23,025 --> 01:04:25,827
[Flynn] That changed the case for
us, because there's two phone calls.
1241
01:04:25,895 --> 01:04:31,132
Now, those were phone calls, so we
had no idea of what was or wasn't said,
1242
01:04:31,200 --> 01:04:35,303
other than the fact that she told us in
those subsequent text messages to Sam.
1243
01:04:35,337 --> 01:04:37,572
[Curhan] This was certainly
a complex legal issue.
1244
01:04:37,640 --> 01:04:40,942
She said, "Get back in the
car." But he didn't have to do it.
1245
01:04:40,977 --> 01:04:44,846
She didn't compel him to
get back in the car by force.
1246
01:04:44,914 --> 01:04:47,582
She didn't have the ability
to force him back into the car.
1247
01:04:47,616 --> 01:04:49,284
She just told him to.
1248
01:04:51,821 --> 01:04:55,190
[Banfield] During cross examination,
the defense does what it can,
1249
01:04:55,257 --> 01:04:58,760
to minimize the impact of Sam's
testimony for the prosecution,
1250
01:04:58,794 --> 01:05:00,262
but that's not going to be easy.
1251
01:05:00,329 --> 01:05:03,531
And you just went over
various text messages
1252
01:05:03,599 --> 01:05:04,833
with the
district attorney's office,
1253
01:05:04,867 --> 01:05:06,835
and they put it up
on the big screen, right?
1254
01:05:06,869 --> 01:05:10,605
- Mm-hm.
- Would you agree with me that was probably less.
1255
01:05:10,673 --> 01:05:16,278
- Far less than 1% of all your conversations with Michelle.
- Yes.
1256
01:05:16,312 --> 01:05:21,049
They go on to expand the list of things that
Michelle and Sam had privately discussed,
1257
01:05:21,083 --> 01:05:24,753
all in an attempt to show how
deep and varied the relationship was.
1258
01:05:24,820 --> 01:05:27,322
But frankly,
mopping up the venom
1259
01:05:27,356 --> 01:05:30,892
that was the, "I told him
to get back in" text,
1260
01:05:30,960 --> 01:05:33,862
that is an uphill climb.
1261
01:05:33,896 --> 01:05:36,765
Throughout the course of the
trial, it drew national attention,
1262
01:05:36,799 --> 01:05:40,335
and so, you had media
from all across the country.
1263
01:05:40,369 --> 01:05:44,940
It was always, you know, huge
media presence outside the courtroom.
1264
01:05:44,974 --> 01:05:47,943
It was a media circus.
There was helicopters...
1265
01:05:47,977 --> 01:05:51,846
I'm still trying to figure out why you
have a helicopter at a courthouse.
1266
01:05:51,914 --> 01:05:54,983
The town police had to assist
us on escorting the family.
1267
01:05:55,050 --> 01:05:57,986
It was kind of hard
to deal with.
1268
01:05:58,053 --> 01:06:04,526
There's one particular text from the
trial that, um, really catches the eye
1269
01:06:04,593 --> 01:06:09,898
of some uber fans of the
blockbuster TV series, Glee.
1270
01:06:09,932 --> 01:06:12,033
And BuzzFeed pointed this out.
1271
01:06:13,436 --> 01:06:15,036
After Conrad's death,
1272
01:06:15,071 --> 01:06:18,907
Michelle texted Sam,
"I had it all planned out."
1273
01:06:18,941 --> 01:06:21,109
I had it all planned out.
1274
01:06:21,143 --> 01:06:22,477
[Bayfield] Almost word for word.
1275
01:06:22,678 --> 01:06:26,147
This text matches something
that the character, Rachel said,
1276
01:06:26,215 --> 01:06:28,516
right after her boyfriend,
Finn died.
1277
01:06:28,551 --> 01:06:30,819
I don't know,
something different.
1278
01:06:30,886 --> 01:06:34,089
- Maybe something better.
- I don't think that that's possible.
1279
01:06:34,123 --> 01:06:37,125
[sobbing]
He was my person.
1280
01:06:37,159 --> 01:06:40,095
[Banfield] After actor
Cory Monteith passed away,
1281
01:06:40,162 --> 01:06:42,764
his character on the show
also died, Finn.
1282
01:06:42,831 --> 01:06:46,001
Lea Michele had played Rachel,
on screen.
1283
01:06:46,035 --> 01:06:48,737
But the two were also couple
in real life as well.
1284
01:06:48,771 --> 01:06:52,774
And the diehard fans of Glee
started to wonder,
1285
01:06:52,841 --> 01:06:56,978
"What is Michelle Carter's
deal with Glee and Lea Michele?"
1286
01:06:57,046 --> 01:06:59,114
We saw in looking at her phone
1287
01:06:59,181 --> 01:07:02,250
that there was like a lot of
images of Lea Michele.
1288
01:07:02,317 --> 01:07:05,920
She clearly had an obsession
with that program.
1289
01:07:05,988 --> 01:07:09,758
It's just so eerie to
emulate someone in mourning.
1290
01:07:09,792 --> 01:07:15,063
And the timing of Monteith and
Conrad's death is just so chilling.
1291
01:07:15,097 --> 01:07:19,134
[Camdyn] He passed away close
to the same day that Conrad did.
1292
01:07:19,168 --> 01:07:21,736
And it was kind of like, um...
Could be why
1293
01:07:21,804 --> 01:07:25,907
she was trying to, like, get him
to do it maybe on that exact day.
1294
01:07:25,941 --> 01:07:27,876
So they think maybe
that could've been, like,
1295
01:07:27,943 --> 01:07:30,245
correlated with
her love for Glee.
1296
01:07:31,047 --> 01:07:32,814
[notification sound]
1297
01:07:32,881 --> 01:07:35,850
[Banfield] So, amid this whole
media circus,
1298
01:07:35,885 --> 01:07:41,156
After three days of calling
witnesses, the prosecution finally rests.
1299
01:07:41,223 --> 01:07:43,725
And on its face, you know,
it looks good.
1300
01:07:43,759 --> 01:07:45,226
They've laid out motive,
1301
01:07:45,294 --> 01:07:48,563
they've showed the depths to
which Michelle wanted Conrad to die.
1302
01:07:48,731 --> 01:07:51,066
But it is by no means
a slam dunk.
1303
01:07:51,100 --> 01:07:53,902
This is a very unique case,
1304
01:07:53,969 --> 01:07:57,472
and manslaughter's not
an easy charge to prove.
1305
01:07:57,506 --> 01:08:00,575
The outcome of this one
is impossible to predict.
1306
01:08:01,944 --> 01:08:05,914
The next day, on June 9, the
defense calls it's first witness.
1307
01:08:05,981 --> 01:08:09,350
Mattapoisett police officer
Justin King.
1308
01:08:09,385 --> 01:08:14,556
And were you employed by them
back in 2014, specifically February 19?
1309
01:08:14,623 --> 01:08:15,757
Yes, I was.
1310
01:08:15,791 --> 01:08:17,592
[Ransom] In calling
the police officer,
1311
01:08:17,660 --> 01:08:22,564
the defense seemed to try to highlight the
fact that Conrad was dealing with other issues.
1312
01:08:22,665 --> 01:08:24,399
Particularly in his family life.
1313
01:08:24,466 --> 01:08:26,734
I responded to
an assault call, sir.
1314
01:08:26,802 --> 01:08:28,770
[Cataldo] And who were you
trying to find?
1315
01:08:28,804 --> 01:08:32,140
We attempted to find the
person that had been assaulted.
1316
01:08:32,207 --> 01:08:37,779
[Daniel] It turns out, that officer had
responded to Conrad's dad's house,
1317
01:08:37,813 --> 01:08:41,216
about five months
before Conrad's suicide.
1318
01:08:41,283 --> 01:08:45,053
And that was for
a domestic violence case.
1319
01:08:45,087 --> 01:08:47,689
That night,
Conrad had called 911,
1320
01:08:47,756 --> 01:08:49,657
alleging that his father
had punched him.
1321
01:08:49,692 --> 01:08:53,061
[Cataldo] Okay, and did you
make any observations of him?
1322
01:08:53,095 --> 01:08:57,999
Yes. His face was swollen red and
he had some lacerations to his face.
1323
01:09:00,569 --> 01:09:01,702
[Banfield] In his
police statement,
1324
01:09:01,704 --> 01:09:03,938
Conrad said that this was
all about an incident
1325
01:09:03,973 --> 01:09:06,541
where his dad wanted him
to wash some pots and pans.
1326
01:09:06,575 --> 01:09:09,744
He didn't do it when he
was asked, it got physical.
1327
01:09:09,778 --> 01:09:11,513
Conrad's dad was arrested
that night.
1328
01:09:11,580 --> 01:09:16,718
But it is really important to know that
he was never charged for the crime.
1329
01:09:16,785 --> 01:09:19,754
The defense was clearly
trying to show that
1330
01:09:19,788 --> 01:09:23,191
that could have contributed
to him wanting to kill himself.
1331
01:09:26,362 --> 01:09:31,566
On Jun 12, the defense calls it's
most important witness in this case.
1332
01:09:31,600 --> 01:09:33,935
Dr. Peter Breggin.
1333
01:09:34,002 --> 01:09:38,806
And he becomes, essentially
the star witness for Michelle Carter.
1334
01:09:38,874 --> 01:09:42,844
[Banfield] Dr. Breggin
has a very impressive résumé.
1335
01:09:42,878 --> 01:09:48,816
He is a Harvard-trained doctor with decades
and decades of experience, and he is also
1336
01:09:48,884 --> 01:09:53,555
an outspoken critic of having
antidepressants prescribed to teenagers.
1337
01:09:53,622 --> 01:09:57,058
[Cataldo] And what have you spoken
before the FDA on? What subject?
1338
01:09:57,092 --> 01:09:59,694
[Peter Breggin] Um, a number
of different subjects.
1339
01:09:59,761 --> 01:10:03,798
Um, the adverse effects
of antipsychotic drugs,
1340
01:10:03,832 --> 01:10:07,101
the adverse effects
of stimulant drugs.
1341
01:10:07,135 --> 01:10:09,971
Dr. Breggin sought to lay out
1342
01:10:10,038 --> 01:10:15,276
the way in which Michelle's exchanges
with Conrad changed over the months.
1343
01:10:15,310 --> 01:10:19,380
You started reviewing
Facebook communications,
1344
01:10:19,414 --> 01:10:23,685
- Starting in...
- Between Miss Carter and Mr. Roy in October 2012?
1345
01:10:23,719 --> 01:10:25,653
Yes.
1346
01:10:25,721 --> 01:10:31,025
He says, "Yeah I tried to kill myself."
And she says, "Why didn't you tell me?"
1347
01:10:31,060 --> 01:10:33,962
[Ludwig] Dr. Breggin is painting
Michelle in a whole new light,
1348
01:10:33,996 --> 01:10:37,198
using the texts between
her and Conrad
1349
01:10:37,266 --> 01:10:40,034
to show that Michelle was
actually trying to help him.
1350
01:10:40,069 --> 01:10:42,904
And help him to stay alive.
1351
01:10:42,938 --> 01:10:45,573
It's a radical change
in perspective.
1352
01:10:45,674 --> 01:10:49,043
He talks about hanging himself
that night.
1353
01:10:49,078 --> 01:10:51,312
And she says,
"You're not going to..."
1354
01:10:52,147 --> 01:10:54,249
"Conrad stop."
1355
01:10:59,255 --> 01:11:02,290
[Banfield] Michelle Carter's defense
team is now questioning Dr. Peter Breggin.
1356
01:11:02,324 --> 01:11:03,925
An expert witness,
1357
01:11:03,992 --> 01:11:08,563
who's introducing some evidence that
shows Michelle really tried to help Conrad.
1358
01:11:08,764 --> 01:11:11,666
This is the kind of stuff that the
judge hasn't heard much before.
1359
01:11:11,733 --> 01:11:12,767
[Breggin] She's a helper.
1360
01:11:12,801 --> 01:11:15,803
Her whole life is helping,
everybody says.
1361
01:11:15,871 --> 01:11:19,540
She's the... Just about
everybody. She's the biggest helper.
1362
01:11:19,608 --> 01:11:24,579
He noted that the tone
of her messages were kind,
1363
01:11:24,713 --> 01:11:29,150
that she sought to try to get
him some sort of psychiatric help.
1364
01:11:29,217 --> 01:11:33,521
This is from Conrad to Michelle,
1365
01:11:33,555 --> 01:11:38,259
on October 8, 2013
at 4:50 p.m.
1366
01:11:38,294 --> 01:11:41,829
- [Cataldo] All right.
- He says, "I feel hopeless."
1367
01:11:41,897 --> 01:11:46,067
She says, "Do you still feel the
same way you've been feeling?"
1368
01:11:46,101 --> 01:11:48,136
"Yeah, it's bad."
1369
01:11:48,170 --> 01:11:51,139
"Did you get
a new psychiatrist?"
1370
01:11:51,173 --> 01:11:54,876
"He cancels my appointment
all the time."
1371
01:11:54,910 --> 01:11:59,347
"Yeah, you need to get
a new one fast!!!"
1372
01:11:59,381 --> 01:12:03,051
And she says, "Try my best
every day
1373
01:12:03,118 --> 01:12:04,986
to think of ways to help you,
1374
01:12:05,053 --> 01:12:09,023
and I just wish you knew
how much you mean to me."
1375
01:12:11,527 --> 01:12:14,128
[Daniel] Dr. Breggin
also talks a bit about
1376
01:12:14,196 --> 01:12:16,998
that Michelle had...
1377
01:12:17,366 --> 01:12:19,033
been on antidepressants.
1378
01:12:19,068 --> 01:12:21,703
April 1, Michelle says
1379
01:12:21,737 --> 01:12:24,839
that she's talking to the doctor
about starting Celexa and why.
1380
01:12:24,873 --> 01:12:28,009
Because it will help her
eat more.
1381
01:12:28,043 --> 01:12:32,113
Breggin said that the medication that
Michelle was taking, which was Celexa,
1382
01:12:32,147 --> 01:12:34,782
affected the frontal part
of the brain,
1383
01:12:34,817 --> 01:12:40,788
which deals with empathy,
decision making, the ability to love.
1384
01:12:40,823 --> 01:12:44,392
[Daniel] Dr. Breggin centers
his testimony on his theory,
1385
01:12:44,426 --> 01:12:47,528
this involuntary intoxication.
1386
01:12:47,563 --> 01:12:51,065
Due to the antidepressants
that she was on.
1387
01:12:51,100 --> 01:12:55,803
[Cataldo] In terms, Doctor,
what is involuntary intoxication?
1388
01:12:55,838 --> 01:12:58,039
Well, by definition,
1389
01:12:58,540 --> 01:13:01,542
it's an intoxication,
which means
1390
01:13:01,577 --> 01:13:06,547
that the neurochemistry of
the brain has been disrupted.
1391
01:13:06,582 --> 01:13:13,488
And that this intoxication is observable
through thoughts, behaviors, activities.
1392
01:13:13,522 --> 01:13:17,992
[Cataldo] And in terms of your opinion
that she became involuntarily intoxicated,
1393
01:13:18,059 --> 01:13:23,064
are you able to pinpoint about when
she became involuntarily intoxicated?
1394
01:13:23,131 --> 01:13:26,033
Yes, on July 2,
1395
01:13:26,068 --> 01:13:27,835
she begins...
1396
01:13:27,870 --> 01:13:31,105
to help him go to heaven.
1397
01:13:31,940 --> 01:13:36,477
She begins to give him advice
and she'll encourage him.
1398
01:13:40,883 --> 01:13:44,852
Dr. Breggin says, Michelle has
this diminished mental capacity,
1399
01:13:44,887 --> 01:13:46,020
and in her mind,
1400
01:13:46,087 --> 01:13:49,991
that she actually believes
that she's helping Conrad,
1401
01:13:50,025 --> 01:13:54,429
when she starts making the
suggestions about killing himself.
1402
01:13:54,496 --> 01:13:58,499
But at this point, she has
an involuntary intoxication,
1403
01:13:58,567 --> 01:14:04,138
where she is not forming a criminal
intent, "I'm going to harm him."
1404
01:14:04,173 --> 01:14:07,508
She's not doing something
that she thinks is criminal.
1405
01:14:07,576 --> 01:14:08,943
This is bad.
1406
01:14:08,977 --> 01:14:12,847
She's actually going ahead
and going to help him do it better,
1407
01:14:12,914 --> 01:14:16,551
the way he wants, to reassure
him he's going to heaven.
1408
01:14:19,655 --> 01:14:21,789
[Flynn] Katie Rayburn
did the cross examination,
1409
01:14:21,857 --> 01:14:23,891
so she had done
tremendous amount of research
1410
01:14:23,926 --> 01:14:26,828
in his prior case testimonies.
1411
01:14:26,862 --> 01:14:30,898
July 10. where you're telling
us, she's involuntarily intoxicated,
1412
01:14:30,932 --> 01:14:33,501
she can't decipher between
right and wrong,
1413
01:14:33,535 --> 01:14:35,002
she goes to see her therapist.
1414
01:14:35,070 --> 01:14:37,572
And you would agree with me, the
therapist describes her appearance
1415
01:14:37,706 --> 01:14:40,107
as good eye contact,
well groomed, correct?
1416
01:14:40,142 --> 01:14:41,709
- Yeah.
- [Rayburn] All right.
1417
01:14:41,743 --> 01:14:45,613
- Short-term memory intact, judgement good. Correct?
- Mm-hm.
1418
01:14:45,680 --> 01:14:47,482
[Rayburn] Her attitude
is cooperative and pleasant
1419
01:14:47,549 --> 01:14:49,851
- and her thoughts logical. Correct?
- [Breggin] Yes.
1420
01:14:49,885 --> 01:14:54,522
And you're now telling us that she didn't
know right from wrong at that same time.
1421
01:14:54,556 --> 01:14:59,660
Well, actually, she thought she
was doing absolutely the right thing.
1422
01:14:59,695 --> 01:15:03,264
Prosecutor Katie Rayburn says,
"Hey, can you show me
1423
01:15:03,298 --> 01:15:07,935
in the list of mental health issues that
people may have, where this exists?"
1424
01:15:07,970 --> 01:15:10,805
[Rayburn] This is the DSM-5, for
the record, I'm handing the witness.
1425
01:15:10,839 --> 01:15:12,974
Could you please grab
the section in that book
1426
01:15:13,041 --> 01:15:16,844
that covers involuntary
intoxication for me.
1427
01:15:16,912 --> 01:15:19,447
Oh, there's no involuntary
intoxication here, it's a legal term.
1428
01:15:21,016 --> 01:15:22,517
This is a huge deal.
1429
01:15:22,584 --> 01:15:26,554
Involuntary intoxication
is not a psychiatric term,
1430
01:15:26,588 --> 01:15:29,891
even though Dr. Breggin
tries to apply it in that way.
1431
01:15:29,925 --> 01:15:32,326
Katie Rayburn,
with that one question,
1432
01:15:32,360 --> 01:15:36,998
basically decimates Dr. Breggin's
whole theory on Michelle.
1433
01:15:37,065 --> 01:15:40,535
Fair to say, you're not board
certified in psychiatry, correct?
1434
01:15:40,569 --> 01:15:42,069
[Breggin] I never
took the boards.
1435
01:15:42,137 --> 01:15:45,940
[Rayburn] You had no longer, or if
ever had medical privileges or a hospital?
1436
01:15:46,007 --> 01:15:49,143
Breggin did some very helpful
things for the defense.
1437
01:15:49,210 --> 01:15:53,748
Like, he gave context to
Michelle's life, and Michelle's actions,
1438
01:15:53,815 --> 01:15:56,050
certainly regarding
her own mental health.
1439
01:15:56,084 --> 01:15:59,520
And the theory that she really
did think she was helping Conrad.
1440
01:15:59,555 --> 01:16:01,055
That was interesting,
1441
01:16:01,122 --> 01:16:04,058
but the prosecution poked a
lot of holes in his presentation.
1442
01:16:04,092 --> 01:16:07,528
[Ransom] Dr. Breggin was
the last witness in the case.
1443
01:16:07,563 --> 01:16:10,765
At that point,
the defense rested,
1444
01:16:10,832 --> 01:16:15,269
and the defense and prosecution
presented their closing remarks.
1445
01:16:19,841 --> 01:16:22,009
Then, on the day
of the decision,
1446
01:16:22,044 --> 01:16:25,246
the atmosphere
in the courtroom was tense.
1447
01:16:35,958 --> 01:16:40,494
[Daniel] So the trial ends, and
now it's all in Judge Moniz's hands.
1448
01:16:40,562 --> 01:16:44,932
He's got to decide, whether or
not a crime was committed here.
1449
01:16:44,967 --> 01:16:49,070
And this is a crime that can
carry up to 20 years in prison.
1450
01:16:49,972 --> 01:16:52,940
It took three days
to get a verdict.
1451
01:16:53,408 --> 01:16:56,911
Finally, we hear from
Judge Moniz.
1452
01:16:56,978 --> 01:17:01,782
[Judge Moniz] The law does not require that
any explanation, as to a verdict, be given.
1453
01:17:01,850 --> 01:17:04,785
Nonetheless, I am of the
opinion that some explanation
1454
01:17:04,853 --> 01:17:08,289
of my verdict is warranted.
1455
01:17:08,323 --> 01:17:11,959
[Flynn] There was as they say,
that, the hush in the courtroom.
1456
01:17:12,861 --> 01:17:15,529
And it was just very tense.
1457
01:17:15,597 --> 01:17:18,766
You know, you have all these people
wondering what's going to happen,
1458
01:17:18,800 --> 01:17:21,769
and then he starts
reading his decision.
1459
01:17:21,803 --> 01:17:23,938
[Judge Moniz] This court
first finds,
1460
01:17:23,972 --> 01:17:27,575
that the Commonwealth has
proven beyond a reasonable doubt,
1461
01:17:27,943 --> 01:17:33,848
that the actions taken by Miss Carter
as to the period from June 30 to July 12,
1462
01:17:33,882 --> 01:17:38,419
constituted wanton
and reckless conduct by her.
1463
01:17:40,322 --> 01:17:44,558
The Commonwealth has not
proven, as to that time period,
1464
01:17:44,626 --> 01:17:50,564
that said reckless or wanton
behavior caused the death of Mr. Roy.
1465
01:17:50,632 --> 01:17:54,035
He's saying, Commonwealth has
met it's burden in certain things, but,
1466
01:17:54,102 --> 01:17:57,872
that doesn't meet the threshold. And
it sounds like he's going to acquit her.
1467
01:17:57,906 --> 01:18:00,041
[Judge Moniz] He's secured
the water pump.
1468
01:18:00,108 --> 01:18:02,843
He's located his vehicle
in an unnoticeable area,
1469
01:18:02,911 --> 01:18:06,614
and commenced his attempt
by starting the pump.
1470
01:18:06,648 --> 01:18:10,418
To be honest, the verdict, to us,
was a bit of a rollercoaster ride.
1471
01:18:10,452 --> 01:18:13,087
At one point, it seemed like
he was going in our direction.
1472
01:18:13,121 --> 01:18:15,856
Then it seemed like he was
going in the defense's direction.
1473
01:18:15,924 --> 01:18:17,191
However,
1474
01:18:17,225 --> 01:18:20,928
he breaks that chain
of self-causation
1475
01:18:20,995 --> 01:18:23,531
by exiting the vehicle.
1476
01:18:23,598 --> 01:18:29,403
When Miss Carter realizes
that Mr. Roy has exited the truck,
1477
01:18:29,471 --> 01:18:32,940
she instructs him to get back
into the truck,
1478
01:18:33,007 --> 01:18:38,679
which she has reason to know is
or is becoming a toxic environment,
1479
01:18:38,747 --> 01:18:41,182
inconsistent with human life.
1480
01:18:45,120 --> 01:18:47,555
That's when it took
the sharp turn.
1481
01:18:47,622 --> 01:18:48,923
And...
1482
01:18:48,957 --> 01:18:52,226
It was going to go very badly
for Michelle.
1483
01:18:52,627 --> 01:18:54,929
[Judge Moniz] This court
does not find,
1484
01:18:54,963 --> 01:18:59,867
that the intentionality necessary
for such wanton and reckless conduct
1485
01:18:59,901 --> 01:19:04,972
is obviated by Dr. Breggin's
theory of involuntary intoxication,
1486
01:19:05,039 --> 01:19:08,109
and that the court did not
find that analysis correct.
1487
01:19:09,077 --> 01:19:10,511
Miss Carter, please stand.
1488
01:19:14,282 --> 01:19:16,083
This court,
1489
01:19:16,118 --> 01:19:20,020
having reviewed the evidence
and applied the law there too,
1490
01:19:20,789 --> 01:19:22,723
now finds you guilty,
1491
01:19:22,757 --> 01:19:24,558
on the indictment.
1492
01:19:24,593 --> 01:19:30,397
Charging you with the involuntary
manslaughter of the person Conrad Roy III.
1493
01:19:33,101 --> 01:19:35,770
I just remember being kind of
shocked and still for second
1494
01:19:35,804 --> 01:19:40,141
and having to digest it.
And then just being relieved.
1495
01:19:40,709 --> 01:19:43,577
There was kind of,
like a sigh of relief,
1496
01:19:43,712 --> 01:19:47,381
from, like me and my family, because we
thought that, like my brother got justice.
1497
01:19:48,750 --> 01:19:51,819
So the judge
had determined that,
1498
01:19:51,886 --> 01:19:54,455
all the text messaging
that had taken place,
1499
01:19:55,791 --> 01:20:00,528
that didn't quite hit the mark
for manslaughter.
1500
01:20:00,562 --> 01:20:04,999
But the moment that he stepped
out of that truck and in her own words,
1501
01:20:05,033 --> 01:20:07,268
she told him to get back
in the f-ing truck.
1502
01:20:07,302 --> 01:20:09,403
That was the crime.
1503
01:20:10,639 --> 01:20:15,042
What a shocking verdict! I
mean, guilty of manslaughter,
1504
01:20:15,109 --> 01:20:18,846
for texting and telling Conrad
things over the phone.
1505
01:20:18,913 --> 01:20:20,648
When you're not even there.
1506
01:20:20,715 --> 01:20:24,185
So this is a very powerful
precedent, obviously.
1507
01:20:24,219 --> 01:20:27,555
Michelle and her parents have never
really spoken out about their reaction,
1508
01:20:27,589 --> 01:20:30,958
but you can only imagine
how scared they are. Right?
1509
01:20:30,992 --> 01:20:33,961
Their daughter's facing
20 years in prison.
1510
01:20:37,866 --> 01:20:39,600
[Flynn] With the
court's permission,
1511
01:20:39,801 --> 01:20:42,069
I'd like to read the impact statement
of Lynn Roy, Conrad's mother.
1512
01:20:42,136 --> 01:20:43,470
[Judge Moniz] Certainly.
1513
01:20:43,538 --> 01:20:46,874
In that sentencing, Lynn
provided an impact statement
1514
01:20:46,941 --> 01:20:52,079
describing the pain and the anguish
that she and the family had been through,
1515
01:20:52,146 --> 01:20:54,949
after losing Conrad.
1516
01:20:55,016 --> 01:20:59,753
[Flynn] "There is not one day that I do
not mourn the loss of my beloved son.
1517
01:20:59,821 --> 01:21:01,856
Everyday, I strive to be
a better mother
1518
01:21:01,890 --> 01:21:05,426
to his sisters,
and a better person for him.
1519
01:21:05,493 --> 01:21:09,864
I want him to be proud of me
and how I'm handling everything.
1520
01:21:09,898 --> 01:21:14,568
I'm trying to be there for his
sisters in the best way that I can,
1521
01:21:14,836 --> 01:21:19,006
with all of my pain that we
will carry with us until eternity."
1522
01:21:20,075 --> 01:21:21,408
I just wanted...
1523
01:21:22,110 --> 01:21:24,211
my son to be recognized.
1524
01:21:24,246 --> 01:21:27,414
And for, you know,
his life to matter.
1525
01:21:28,183 --> 01:21:29,917
I don't know how
she can live with that,
1526
01:21:29,984 --> 01:21:31,552
knowing what she did.
1527
01:21:34,022 --> 01:21:36,590
[Ransom] The prosecution
sought seven to 12 years.
1528
01:21:36,658 --> 01:21:41,528
But Michelle only got 15 months.
1529
01:21:41,596 --> 01:21:46,000
[Morgan] When I found out how short her
sentence was going to be, it kind of hurt me.
1530
01:21:46,067 --> 01:21:48,602
I'm not saying she deserves
like, life in prison,
1531
01:21:48,670 --> 01:21:53,941
but she, like, deserves, kind of like
the hurt that she put on my brother.
1532
01:21:54,643 --> 01:21:56,977
Ultimately, Michelle
only ends up serving
1533
01:21:57,012 --> 01:22:00,347
12 out of 15 months
that she was sentenced to.
1534
01:22:02,717 --> 01:22:07,655
On January 23rd, 2020, Michelle
Carter was released from prison.
1535
01:22:07,689 --> 01:22:09,590
[Flynn] She was released early
1536
01:22:09,658 --> 01:22:12,526
because she didn't get into any
trouble while she was incarcerated.
1537
01:22:12,560 --> 01:22:17,197
She'll be on probation
until August of 2022.
1538
01:22:17,232 --> 01:22:22,069
[Lynn] I don't know if someone
like her can feel that emotion of guilt.
1539
01:22:22,971 --> 01:22:25,172
If she didn't feel it
that night,
1540
01:22:25,239 --> 01:22:28,509
that he died, I don't know how
she could feel it now.
1541
01:22:28,977 --> 01:22:31,979
I don't believe
that people change.
1542
01:22:32,814 --> 01:22:36,150
I suppose one day, I'll
have to forgive her for myself.
1543
01:22:36,184 --> 01:22:39,553
But I'm really not
at that stage, like, you know.
1544
01:22:41,623 --> 01:22:43,891
I really pray that she feels...
1545
01:22:43,925 --> 01:22:48,095
remorse, badly. I'm not sure
if she does, though.
1546
01:22:50,098 --> 01:22:53,968
[Ransom] This case is one
that you don't ever forget.
1547
01:22:54,002 --> 01:22:57,905
And to see it play out the way
that it did...
1548
01:22:57,939 --> 01:23:01,175
It's a case that is
in many ways haunting.
1549
01:23:01,776 --> 01:23:03,911
There were no winners.
1550
01:23:03,945 --> 01:23:08,015
Conrad is dead
and Michelle went to jail,
1551
01:23:08,049 --> 01:23:11,118
and they both just
badly needed help.
1552
01:23:12,153 --> 01:23:16,123
I think that there is this
compelling cultural script
1553
01:23:16,191 --> 01:23:18,692
of the evil, beautiful,
young woman,
1554
01:23:18,760 --> 01:23:22,963
who annihilates and eliminates
this poor boy.
1555
01:23:23,031 --> 01:23:26,633
Without looking a the reality
behind that imagery.
1556
01:23:26,701 --> 01:23:29,503
And the reality is,
Michelle was a sick girl.
1557
01:23:29,570 --> 01:23:33,140
She wanted to be respected,
she wanted to be popular.
1558
01:23:33,174 --> 01:23:39,546
And I think in her mind, someone needed
to die and in this case it was Conrad.
1559
01:23:43,952 --> 01:23:48,222
Conrad Roy was
one of the most intelligent,
1560
01:23:48,256 --> 01:23:51,425
kind-hearted people
I've ever met in my life.
1561
01:23:51,459 --> 01:23:56,597
And the world definitely will
be missing out without him.
1562
01:23:56,865 --> 01:24:02,569
In Massachusetts, we're still in the process
of trying to get a law in my son's name.
1563
01:24:02,670 --> 01:24:06,740
Conrad's law would explicitly
make it a crime,
1564
01:24:06,808 --> 01:24:09,276
if someone knows
a person is suicidal,
1565
01:24:09,343 --> 01:24:11,945
and then encourages that
person to commit suicide anyway,
1566
01:24:12,013 --> 01:24:14,681
or provides the means to do so.
1567
01:24:14,749 --> 01:24:17,951
There is, however,
a medical exemption.
1568
01:24:19,587 --> 01:24:24,024
[Lynn] This year, for the first
time, I just wrote a letter to him.
1569
01:24:25,360 --> 01:24:29,096
It was the first time that
I could really express and...
1570
01:24:30,532 --> 01:24:34,034
my feelings, towards--
About him.
1571
01:24:34,068 --> 01:24:37,337
Because child loss
is traumatic, very traumatic.
1572
01:24:38,406 --> 01:24:40,007
It takes so much out of you.
1573
01:24:40,041 --> 01:24:41,375
Um...
1574
01:24:42,310 --> 01:24:46,146
And just writing that
felt really good.
1575
01:24:46,915 --> 01:24:48,182
Really good.
1576
01:24:48,850 --> 01:24:50,451
Think about him everyday.
1577
01:24:52,153 --> 01:24:53,921
I feel like he's always with me.